“I’m Not Kinky Enough for My Fiancé”
New readers, welcome to Dear Wendy, a relationship advice blog. If you don’t find the info you need in this column, please visit the Dear Wendy archives or the forums (you can even start your own thread), or submit a question for advice.
My fiancé always says it’s not fun if I’m not involved and he always wants it to be an “us” thing, but, honestly, I feel like I’m just not going to be enough for him. When I tell him this, he says “Babe, it’s me and you forever and this is just fun for us to do together! It means nothing if you’re not there.”
However, within the past two months, when I went on his iPad, I found email exchanges where he traded pics of me and another man’s wife, and sent emails to ads about “massages.” When I confronted him, he told me that I’m not as much fun anymore and he’s only looking and there is “absolutely no action.” I was hurt he didn’t tell me, and I think it’s because I’m leaning away from all that stuff. We are getting married and I want to meet his needs, but I’m afraid he’s never going to get over this shit and always want kinky.
Should I just realize he wants me involved and have some fun with him or what? He’s an amazing man and I honestly don’t think he’s doing anything more than just looking, AND he tells me about it and wants me involved for OUR sex life, but I’m just not sure what to do and I need help. Every other aspect of our relationship is amazing! It’s just I think we are on different pages when it comes to sex and I’m scared. — Not So Kinky
Whatever you do, don’t marry him before you’ve reached some kind of conclusion or agreement on this issue. And don’t be like a LW from earlier this week and expect change to come only after you’re married — even if you are both in agreement on whatever change you want or need. If you aren’t comfortable with things BEFORE you get married, don’t marry him.
Now, how do you get comfortable? That’s a little more complicated and I’m not sure there’s an easy answer. I commend you for being open enough to experiment and figure out what you aren’t comfortable with. But in terms of meeting your partner’s needs, I think it’s important to figure out now what you ARE comfortable with and give him some ideas of what you would be willing to explore or experiment with. Of all the things you’ve already tried, is there anything you actually enjoyed? Is there anything you were OK enough with to do again — maybe even regularly? It’s ok if the answer is “nothing.” You shouldn’t push yourself too far outside your comfort zone, but if there’s some wiggle room and there are things you can at least tolerate, if not outright enjoy, it might be worth doing on a regular basis to help meet your partner’s needs.
At the same time, your own needs have to be met. And it may be that you simply need someone who doesn’t require so much kink to be satisfied. There’s nothing at all wrong with that. It just means that you aren’t sexually compatible. And that, unfortunately, might mean that you aren’t really compatible as long-term mates either.
What is clear is that you two need to sit down and talk about this. A lot. Before you walk down the aisle. Discuss your needs, your deal-breakers, your expectations, and what you’re willing to compromise on. Be honest about what turns you on and what turns you off. You have every bit as much right to be heard and validated as he does. Not being as kinky doesn’t mean you aren’t as fun and it doesn’t mean you have to sit back and worry about your partner getting his needs met elsewhere. Unless you both agree to that. But that’s something that HAS to be a mutual decision. And it doesn’t seem to me that either of you really prefers that.
It also doesn’t seem to me that your fiancé is being as open and honest as you’d like to think he is. In one paragraph you say you discovered emails on his iPad that you didn’t know he’d sent — photos of you he traded with some stranger and responses to Craigslist ads. In the next paragraph you say that he tells you about his behavior and that he isn’t doing anything more than just looking. Clearly, that isn’t the case at all. He is trading pictures of you with other people! He’s responding to ads for erotic massages. That’s more than just looking, and, if you can’t see that and if you can’t appreciate what an enormous violation of trust he’s committed, then you’re in serious denial.
Honestly, if you were my friend and you came to me with this dilemma, I’d be really concerned for you. There are some pretty big red flags that don’t bode well for your future together. You think you aren’t “enough” for him, he tells you aren’t fun anymore, he lies about his behavior (i.e. “I’m just looking!”), and you think his appetite for kink is “shit he needs to get over.” You two may very well have a wonderful relationship aside from these issues and he may, indeed, be “amazing” in every other way, but sexual compatibility is a pretty big deal in a marriage and, if you don’t have it — and worse, you don’t have total trust because of your inability to meet each other’s needs, then… I just don’t see how you are going to be happy together. But if you’re set on trying to make this relationship work, sit down and talk. And be as honest about your needs and boundaries and expectations as you possibly can.
***************
You can follow me on Facebook here and sign up for my weekly newsletter here.
If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
He sent pictures of YOU to random people on the internet, responding to sex ads without your consent? Do not gloss over that! That is such a violation! Red flag! Don’t get married before you figure this stuff out, problems like this snowball if you don’t deal with them. Compatibility in the bedroom is a big deal for marriages and you shouldn’t get married if it’s not working. Stop all wedding planning, put it on hold until you first deal with the fact that he didn’t get your consent before sending your pic to god knows who, basically advertising that you want sex from strangers and then deal with your mish mash of sexual desires.
Yeah, a number of things in this letter made me cringe. There is definitely sexual incompatibility, but more than that, there seems to be communication issues and boundary issues happening. I agree that sending the pictures over the internet without her consent first is definitely crossing boundaries. If he had approached her about the idea first and she agreed to it, that’s one thing, but to find out later by accident that he’s been doing that? Ugh. But I also think it’s a red flag that she seems to have brought up this issue about her comfort level, and his response was along the lines of, “You’re no fun anymore!” instead of, “I love you, and wouldn’t want you to be involved in something that made you uncomfortable.” They are long overdue for a very open, deep series of conversations.
WWS. I don’t know when your wedding is, but you either need to seriously consider postponing or use the most of the time you have until the wedding date. You need to find a way to clearly communicate with him what both your wants and needs are and how those can be met. It’s hard to hear but if you can’t come to an actual agreement that is in place BEFORE the wedding like Wendy says and actually works for the two of you then I would not get married. And there needs to be time for the potential plan to fail and for things to be readdressed before the wedding too. The hard thing with an issue like this is there is potential for it to work for a chunk of time and then have one or both parties decide they’re no longer happy. So figure a way to work that in to your agreement as well. Whether that be 6 month check ins, etc. It kind of sounds like Wendy said like the LW from earlier in the week where both people were just really hoping the other would change.
(Also bummer I really thought today was Friday until I read this article and realized it was too serious for a Friday morning, sad!)
Mmkay, so I’m responding as someone who’s been involved in many group sex situations—threesomes, foursomes, being watched, watching, etc.—& I found them VERY fun. BUT, I don’t ~need~ this kind of sex as part of my regular repertoire? Which is good, because my boyfriend isn’t really open to experimenting like that. In a hypothetical sense, he’s fine with it—fine talking about it, accepts my past, etc. & accepts me fantasizing about it, & will play along verbally, but that’s as far as he’ll go, & I’m satisfied with that. I’ve had my fun, & I guess you could say… to use your words… that I’m “over that shit”.
But I’ve known people like your boyfriend, & he isn’t going to “get over this shit”. It’s a true kink. He’s seeking it out, whether or not any “action” is occurring— he’s still finding ways to get off with that kink, by emailing people on Craigslist. Yes, he wants to involve you. Has tried to involve you. And good on you for trying it out— that’s what GGG (good, giving, game) is. You aren’t into it though, & that should’ve been the point where both of you were like, “Alright, this is a sexual incompatibility.” And moved on, *or* worked out some agreement—where he could get group sex in on the side (safely), & only did solo stuff with you?
I mean, obviously, you may not have been cool with that arrangement—which is understandable—but my point is it’s either that arrangement, or move on. Because I don’t see how this is workable, honestly. You two are so far apart on the spectrum that there’s no compromise that doesn’t either 1.) repress him 2.) put you in situations where you’re repeatedly uncomfortable.
As a final note—own your discomfort. It doesn’t make you prude, or “vanilla”. I mean, there’s shit ~I’m~ not comfortable with (even my general “I’m down for whatever” attitude re: sex), & you just gotta be like, “that ain’t me.” It’s okay to have different preferences. You shouldn’t stay in a relationship where you constantly feel “less than”.
To add… & I ~just~ starting forming thoughts about this, so sorry if they come out wrong—but I actually think MORE than “group sex” being this dude’s kink, it’s about boundary-pushing? Like, pushing acceptable boundaries is actually, in my assumption, PART of his kink (judging on the photos thing). So, LW, it’s actually likely that his desires will get more extreme as time goes on, rather than less (which, I can tell the latter is what you’re hoping). Just food for thought…
Not sure that boundary pushing is part of the kink, but it’s a bad sign that boundary pushing has already started to occur as a result of their kink incompatibility. It’s a sign that he’s ready to ignore her wishes in order to get what he wants.
Yeah, I could be wrong—it’s just the gut reading I’m getting from the description of his behavior? But you’re right it’s a bad sign regardless.
I’m getting that vibe too, Fab. It sounds like even if she agrees to do X, he’ll eventually push for Y, and then Z. It may not be kink-related, but it is pretty common with this particular kink (at least, in my experience), so I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume.
Fabelle, I loved your comment and thought you did a great job of looking at this situation objectively and fairly. I also had the VERY same read on him as someone who would need to continue to push the limits higher each time to in order to get his “high.”
Fabelle, your comment was awesome. Helped me understand a situation that I just came out of. A similar situation where I was unaware of my partners proclivities and he actively sought to hide them. He’d get on my case about “cheating” when I’d done nothing wrong. When I tried to talk about what I suspected, he’d avoid me. I think for him, in our relationship, the keeping secrets was part of his kink. And there was also a lot of boundary pushing in other areas of his life.
Anyways, your advice was awesome. And the OP should really look at other areas of his behavior to spot patterns. Does he enjoy breaking “rules” generally?
oh that’s an interesting theory.
because you are the only person i know who does, or did, this kinky stuff, i have always wondered: is this stuff that you cant know you would like it until you try it? like if someone has no desire for x activity, does that translate to not liking it in general? or, do people realize by doing it that something is really fun?
I obviously can’t speak for all people, but from what I know about myself and what my also-kinky friends have told me, it does seem to happen that there’s at least a little bit of curiosity and wanting to try involved that’s just kind of naturally there and inspires kinks to grow. However, I have known some people who never felt the need to try something until they had a partner with that kink, and doing it with their partner made them love it (some have continued on after the relationship with that partner ended, some only wanted to do it with/for that person, so afterwards don’t pursue it on their own).
So no, in my experience having no desire for something doesn’t automatically mean not liking it, but it usually does mean that you can have a perfectly happy sex life without ever experimenting. It also doesn’t mean you won’t like it if you do try it though, so yes, some people only realize they like something by doing it.
That isn’t really clear, ha. Basically, if you have a real, must-do-this-to-get-off kink, you’ll likely know it intrinsically. But you CAN get into kinky activities and enjoy them by trying them, they just won’t likely be of the must-have variety, rather just be something enjoyable to mix it up.
This is a good differentiation, yeah (between the must-have, & the “this is fun, but not necessary” types of kink)
thanks for answering you two! very cool.
I think it can happen both ways— I know people who had no desire, & wound up getting super, super into it in ways that surpassed even the original partner’s desire (yeah, like LL said, in these cases it’s usually a partner who introduces them into the world of group sex). For me, it was natural curiosity—like, I’d fantasized about it prior, & wasn’t sure if I would like it, but wanted to try. So when the opportunity presented itself, I tried it. And liked it. So I kept doing it, whenever the opportunity presented itself (or sometimes it was pre-arranged, but I prefer when it’s more spontaneous).
A lot of the fun for me is just how friendly everything is? Which sounds weird. But I think I’ve mentioned on here before, the nice thing about group sex is that there’s A LOT of communication, because everyone (ideally) understands that involving multiple people is fraught, even if everyone is just friends & not in a couple, it’s still more complicated & you want to make sure everyone’s comfortable. So the situations I’ve been in, it’s just like… a really good time. haa I can elaborate, but maybe I’m better off doing that in a deleted thread 😉
We need another deleted thread because I have a question!! Or a thought anyway.
Hopefully this isn’t too vague. There’s something I fantasize about, but have always thought “there’s no way I could actually DO that.” Mainly because I’d be worried about boundaries being crossed and it making me uncomfortable. The opportunity has not presented itself, so I have no idea how I’d act if it did. Actually now that I’m writing this I’d probably try it if it was like served up on a platter… I dunno. Does that make sense?
We need another deleted thread!!
I believe this is most people. Don’t feel weird.
In my experience, people tend to be really good about boundaries in these kinds of situations? Or else maybe I just had really good experiences. Like, the first time an opportunity did present itself to me, those involved knew I’d never done anything like it before, so I didn’t really have to pretend I knew what I was doing, you know? And I just let myself be guided. It’s good to know who you’re dealing with, though, & their personalities…? Because yeah, the boundary issue is a big thing. You can FB message me if you want more details, but otherwise I’ll wait to get into it until a deleted thread 😉 (one time, it practically WAS served up on a platter)
I’ve been saving a story for a deleted thread!
You’re the anonymous pregnant lady?!??!
Ha, I was so excited to scroll up and see who you were talking to! Bummer.
Are you trying throw the lead off of you? 🙂
I’d shout it from the rooftop if I was! I can’t hide things. I think I ovulated though!
My guy & I are into this kind of thing also, him more than me. But he always respects my boundaries & although we joke about the boundaries & he is perfectly clear that he would love to see my boundaries change, he is respectful & doesnt make me feel “less than” for having those boundaries. And as for how you discover you like it, for me, I had to try it. It had always been one of those things I secretly fantasized about, but never expected to have an opportunity to try. When I did I went for it. And it was NOT amazing the first time ha ha! But the 2nd time it was!
I know that I’m kinkier with my current husband (spanking, anal, etc.) than I was with my ex-husband. Not sure why and even though we do things that I never thought I would have befor,e I still know there are things I would not be comfortable doing no matter what (anything that involves other people). I think we have things in our heads that sound like something we may find interesting and some that we have no interest in whatsoever no matter who we’re with. I know there are other things I hope to explore eventually but I also know that none of these fantasies involve other people and I know that’s not something he would like either so you do have to have sexual compatability even though it could be a fairly wide range.
ok next deleted thread i am going to need to hear details about all of this. that’s all.
My main advice is BE HONEST about your preferences and ask your fiancé to be completely honest with you, too. I think in this type of situation there’s often a tendency to sugarcoat things in order to maintain the relationship, but this is very dangerous short-term thinking. When deciding whether you want to marry someone, you must think longterm and not gloss over any incompatibilities. I will say this: Sexual compatibility is a huge plus in a relationship. Even if you could somehow, with a lot of work, find a deal with your guy, it could still be better to look for another longterm partner. You might be much happier 2-3 years from now. This may sound cold, because you obviously love him, but it’s really important to make sure a marriage between two people is a good match.
I think this is a case of when someone is telling you who they are, listen. The fiance is into kink. That’s fine. But I wouldn’t bank on him changing. LW, you tried and I commend you, but you’re not into the kink as much. Which, again, is fine. It doesn’t sound like you two are sexually compatible and I hate to say it, but I’m not sure I would marry if I were you.
Also, I think it’s crap that he says you’re no fun. There are more constructive ways to tell someone you want a little spice.
yea, whatever you do, dont marry this guy. just not now. if i were you, or if you were my friend, i would tell you to flat out, full stop cancel the wedding and wait until you guys have had like, a full year of sexual compatibility before planning another date.
this is one of those things that is just inside of people (thats what she said). you are just the way you are, and he is the way he is. you cant really change those things. i think its great that you have tried some stuff, and maybe as you go on this “are we really sexually compatible?” journey together you could try some more stuff, and same for him, but if you cant come to an agreement about this, there is nothing else. there isnt really an in between here if you both just fundamentally are so different.
so, i say, cancel the wedding, figure out the sex, and very honestly evaluate along the way.
I think your “wait until there has been a year of sexual compatibilty” idea is helpful – if only because thinking along those lines may make it painfully obvious, that it’s an unachievable goal.
yeah this is great advice. don’t marry him and expect him to get over it, and then wind up a year into marriage unhappy you are with a husband who has kink you can’t satisfy and that you are not into which you thought would work itself out eventually. if you can’t see yourself married to this same person exactly as he is now, ten years out then do not marry him (at least not yet).
LW, this doesn’t look so good, honestly. You two may be great together in a lot of areas, but don’t sound compatible sexually, and that’s nothing to take lightly. A kink isn’t something someone just gets over, it’s a part of them and their sexual identity. You can’t just wish for this to go away. Just in the same way, he can’t just wish that you would be totally into group sex all of a sudden, and hope that will change. If you marry him, both assuming the other will change, it’s a recipe for disaster. Listen to Wendy and do some soul searching, then communicate(!) with your fiance, to see if there is a way for you to make this work in the long run.
LW, you have two separate issues here, as I see it. The first issue, and the biggest issue, is that he sent naked pictures of you to someone else without your consent. That’s huge, and a total relationship killer. What a violation of trust! How can you possibly trust him if he’s sending these pictures? How can you get married to someone who would violate you that way?
And the kinky thing is all secondary, really. It doesn’t sound like your sex interests are compatible, long-term. But the bigger issue is that your fiance is scuzzy.
You shouldn’t think about someone’s sexual interests as shit they need to get over. Like, blanket statement time, if you’re afraid your fiance is “never going to get over this shit” (regardless of what the shit is), you shouldn’t get married. Because like, either you’re ok with whatever baggage they have (kinks, a coke problem, a lifetime of sloth, an addiction to lululemon, whatever) or you’re not. But you can’t expect them to change, and you can’t really be upset at them if they don’t change. And if they change pre-wedding because they want to change, then that’s great, and go ahead. But never expect them to change.
haha “a lifetime of sloth”
im wondering about the picture exchange thing- she says that they already talked about that potentially happening- i wonder if this was an ok thing for him to do? because i find it strange she is not bothered by that fact at all… so maybe they had already talked about him doing it?
I don’t see that in the letter – I only see them having tried a few things. Something like that needs clear communication, though.
” He sometimes looks on Craigslist for ads for couples to watch us have sex, girls to come watch us or a guy to have sex with me while my fiancé watches”
im just surprised that she doesnt care about him sharing that picture. the outrage in the comments is what i would assume anyone would say, i guess? so maybe its not such a big deal because they had talked about that happening, or she at least knew it was something he was into…?
Yeah, but watching in person is WAY different than having a naked picture floating around the internet. IMO, of course, but watching in person is a discrete (and discreet, really) action that ends when they leave. That picture could go anywhere.
Plus, she knows about the craigslist surfing for adding people. She didn’t know about the pic sharing, which makes it so 100% not ok.
I’m going to guess he had the ‘ok’ to use her picture to communicate with people on Craigslist from previous encounters and kind of pushed what was ok by doing it without her knowledge. And depending on what the pics are they could be pictures that aren’t identifying? Which potentially affects her ‘ok’-ness with it?
I think she is glossing over it because it is easier than dealing with the fact that her fiancé is likely someone she shouldn’t marry. It must be intimidating to face postponing or calling off a wedding but still, the lw shouldn’t take the easy way out.
I feel like she must have let him do it before, but with her permission, and then he did it without telling her. She didn’t say they were naked pics, just pics.
oh yea, im also assuming these arent naked pictures. wouldnt she say that? and wouldnt she be like, totally outraged if they were?
im thinking that picture swapping with other couples/people is part of the whole other people watching/sex with other couples/people process, so this has happened before, or she is aware of it at least.
OK, I’m assuming these are naked pics. From my understanding of wife-swapping and stuff like that, they’d be naked pics. But! I could be wrong.
I assume they are naked pics as well… what would be the point of sending pics via craigslist encounters if they were professional headshots or a nice photo from vacation!?!
They could just be flattering, clothed photos, to be like, “this is my girlfriend, do you like her?”
But isn’t the whole point to see her naked so you know if you want to play with her or not? Even if the first pic was clothed… if you are trading pics to get photos of another man’s wife at some point they must move past merely flattering.
They could be clothed, or they could be non-identifiable naked parts. I’d be pissed that he did it behind my back, but I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be *outraged* at the thought of one of my naked parts being seen by a stranger. It’s just…not that big of a deal to me? Especially if there’s no way to “prove” that it’s me, you know? The LW might not feel too strongly about it. Or maybe she does, and glossed over it anyway. I’m just saying, some people don’t care as much as others would.
It’s the lack of consent that is the issue to me. Like, I don’t really care if someone touches my boob but if they did it without asking? Not okay.
WRONG. everyone cares the same cats.
Yeah, like I said, I’d be pissed that he did it without permission. But if he had done it before WITH my permission, maybe they just didn’t establish clear boundaries? There is a tiny chance he thought it was okay with her based on what they’d done in the past. This doesn’t make it okay, of course – it’s just another reason they REALLY need to communicate and work this shit out before they go through with a marriage.
I very much doubt he inadvertently crossed a line though… it was being done behind her back for months, in addition to other things (she found the emails and the massage ads, do we really think that is all there was!?!).
If I was into kink and my fiance was having some concerns I definitely wouldn’t go behind her back to push her into situations that she doesn’t want or isn’t ready for… all the while whining about her not being fun enough.
Yeah, I had assumed they were naked pictures, as well. But, perhaps they weren’t? However, if it was something agreed upon and expected and had been done before (sending pictures of her to random people), why did she mention it in the letter?
I read the picture thing as an issue because it’s a step in finding another couple. Like step 1 – respond to ad, step 2 – swap pics, etc. So when he says he has no interest in it anymore but is clearly taking steps in that process, it’s unsettling.
And it can be a fine line/slippery slope between unsettling behavior and coercion…
I know you don’t want to hear this, but you have two options: move on, or get on board with your fiance’s kink. He will not grow out of this, this isn’t a phase; this is part of who he is and it always will be. If you aren’t willing to indulge it a bit (or even let him explore it on his own without you), then your relationship will implode in due time. “Love” is not enough to make a relationship to work forever. You must be compatible in major ways (life goals, family expectations, financial preferences, etc.), and sexual compatibility is an absolute must. You want strict monogamy, and your fiance doesn’t. There are very few ways to reconcile those two lifestyles in one relationship, and no matter how well-matched you otherwise are, this big a difference can drive a wedge in any marriage.
You’ve been with your fiance for two years, and you’ve learned a lot about yourself, your needs, and your boundaries in that time. Ending the relationship now will not make it a waste of your time. Relationships are not successful just when they last, but when they make both people into better versions of themselves. Together, it doesn’t sound like you and your fiance are the best versions of yourselves, but separately, your relationship has made you into people with stronger convictions and senses of self. Take that with you and use it to find someone who meets your needs and whose needs you fulfill simply by being who you are.
I wouldn’t marry him, personally. You may love him a lot and fit together in many other ways, but it doesn’t mean you’re completely compatible. The fact is that you don’t have the same sexual preferences as what he requires, and he also does things that you find questionable. I would certainly not marry someone if I were in that situation.
Just because the person you’re with likes things a certain way and you don’t doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with you. You need to be accepting enough of yourself to realize that different people can like different things, and it’s totally OK. The fact that you assume that you must be wrong says a lot about how you see yourself in this relationship.
And honestly, if you guys aren’t even married yet and he’s already looking elsewhere, I would place bets on the fact that he would eventually cheat on you. Do you think that someone who is looking around now is simply going to be satisfied with not getting “action” in that regard for decades of marriage? Not to mention the fact that you’d be setting yourself up for years of likely blaming yourself (since that’s what you’re doing now), which is detrimental to you and also to your relationship.
What about considering an open relationship or something of that nature? Where he can, with in agreed upon boundaries, engage in the kink with another partner and you don’t have to go out of your comfort zone? (If an open marriage situation would be more in your comfort zone than participating in the kink is.)
I tend to think that open relationships only work well when they are sought out (at least in part) for their own sake and not just to fix a problem. If both of them already like the idea of an open relationship and the kink thing would just be an added benfit, then it could be a good option. Not so much if they tried an open relationship as a last resort.
Yeah, it’s hard for me to see someone who is having problems because she’s not OK with his kinks or him sharing her photo with strangers finding an open relationship to be a suitable alternative. And I agree that resorting to an open relationship because you don’t know how to solve your problems otherwise seems like a bad idea. Open relationships should be based on enjoyment, not a fear of splitting up.
I do agree with your overall point. But I do think it could be a viable solution in the right relationship. This one very well might not be that relationship, but then again it could be.
You know, I read this stuff and I feel so goddamn boring. I used to think of myself as fun and open-minded and exciting but my idea of fun lately is so boring! Like, I’d take cuddling in bed while also eating mac & cheese and watching Home Alone – over most things every time.
I dunno, I’ve only ever seen parts of Home Alone, but I think it did more brain damage than any of the hard drugs I’ve ever done. I think you’re playing with fire. [makes alarmed Macaulay Culkin face]
Ok, I’m making a new year’s resolution. My 2014 is going to be a lot less John Hughes movies, a lot less calories, and a lot more GGG, porn, and whatever kids today are doing. I’ll start with talking dirty. Like this: hey big guy you want to do it allllll night looooong, like stay up until, say, midnight and like do it here and there and everywhere, oh like that!…
^ was that sexy? ^
I’m taking off my wedding ring for the rest of this thread.
we could do it in the car, we could do it near and far
we could do it on the roof, and take pictures for the proof.
meh, i suck at this dirty talk.
p.s. i *have* done it on a roof. does that make me cool? i am really worried about my lifestyle, it just screams 85 year old. i even like blue light specials at 5 pm.
p.p.s. i’m having deja vu. have i tried to talk dirty to you on DW before? i’m having budjy poo flashbacks.
Don’t succumb to the peer pressure AP!!
I think you should write a Dr. Seuss-style dirty talk instruction book. With illustrations.
YES! Brilliant.
I have done it in a van
with a girl but not a man
I have done it in a school
Security came,
Not me; not cool.
I knew Josh in school.
We did it twice in Lunt Hall.
Back when I was cool.
^ a super complicated Haiku that only took me 1 hour
Ok, OK, don’t nobody write a damn sonnet, now….
I’m gonna do it! Right after I finalize some separation agreements for a RIF. <— what a libido killer
I think you should take Wendy’s adivce and really think hard about this. Your fiance’s kink is part of who is he is and he’s not likely to give it up any time soon. I was in a situation like yours once. I had a boyfriend who wanted to try certain things. I tried them because I wanted to please him and I thought maybe it would be okay, even though I pretty much knew it wouldn’t turn me on. (It involved pain, which I’m not into.) I didn’t like it, and when I told him, the first thing he said was, well, we don’t have to do it anymore. Then he proceeded to tell me how un-fun I was and how he was sexually frustrated being with me. I was younger then and I thought it was my job to keep him happy, even at the expense of my own happiness. Well, needless to say, it didn’t end well. Fabelle broke it down really well above. I think you should read what she said very carefully. This issue is not going to go away. The fact that he puts you down and trades pics of you on the internet with strangers made my skin crawl. Frankly, it doesn’t sound like you two are compatible enough for marriage. But please realize that it’s okay not to be into the things he is into. It just means you’re not compatible. It doesn’t mean you’re not any fun or that you are inferior in any way.
LW, you are trying to be GGG and meet his needs. Is HE trying to meet YOUR needs? because your letter describes him as saying that you are not much fun and that’s about it. Is that fair to you?
Personally, i would have the propensity to be more adventurous and kinky than my missus. And she has been willing enough to show she loves me, and to try things over the years. But by the same token, i would never and have never pressured her to do anything that she isn’t comfortable with. My goal is to make her happy and turn her on. If that means vanilla, then that is what i want. So my question is, what is he doing to fulfill YOUR needs?
PS – Someone needs to say this: vanilla sex is sex. Sex, as in nasty, naughty, moist and squishy sex. It’s not really vanilla, is it? In my experience, it’s a much tangier flavour, metaphorically and literally. In fact, i just got an idea, but I gotta stop for a bottle of vanilla extract and some shortening on the way home.
I mean, I like vanilla! Like, I like vanilla ice cream most of the time. I don’t think vanilla is a bad thing. I just think it’s useful when distinguishing between hunka-chunka-PB-fudge sex (ALL the kinky bells and whistles) and vanilla sex (still ice cream, still getting the job done, often delicious).
Well, this is my point. And even among vanillas there is a distinction between your generic no name, all sugar no flavour vanilla and your top notch haagen dazs vanilla bean. [clears throat, points to self]
Fair-trade pure Madagascar vanilla is apparently where it’s at… at least that is what Barefoot Contessa always says “use good, quality vanilla” 🙂
Why would someone have vanilla when chocolate exists?
well… technically vanilla is sweeter than chocolate – which without the sugar, etc. added to it can be quite bitter. Vanilla can add that sweet flavor without taking over when making desserts. I feel like is is kinda like salt of the sweet world… should have a pinch in everything to bring out the flavors 🙂
let’s not bring race into this…
Burst out laughing… your my FAVORITE Diablo 😉
screw you m.
Don’t be a hater because you didn’t think of it first!
Ooh guys last year I made vanilla extract. I’m fucking Martha Stewart.
You are like a living pinterest that makes people feel less than.
Seriously, go can something and put a fancy DIY label on it already with a gingham print ribbon!
I have some pot in keep in a mason jar. if i stick a magnet i got from mexico on the metal top of it, does that count?
Brilliant all around lbh 🙂
so, what’s it like to fuck martha?
(bada bing!)
LW I dont think you understand what amazing means… unless by amazing you mean astonishing that someone who reports to love and care for you would treat you so terribly.
You don’t have an amazing man… you have a man that would not only violate your privacy in the most intimate way, but also expose you to potential harm as well as the dangerous consequences of your naked self being on the internet. People lose jobs over pictures on the web… and worse. Get out now. Attempt to retrieve or delete all pics. Consider hiring a lawyer not putting up with this shit to be “fun” for your “amazing” fiance who sounds more like a pimp than someone in a relationship.
Um, yeah. It is NEVER even remotely stated that the pics in question WERE nudes. Some of you clearly NEED to read the letters twice or something before you go flying off the handle.
Honestly, even if they aren’t nude (and since it wasn’t stated either way I will make whatever assumption I want since mine is just as valid as yours THANKS), it’s still a big fucking deal. This guy has no respect for her boundaries and is going a fine job of putting her down, making her question herself, all the while telling her she knows everything when she doesn’t.
You shouldn’t be searching your fiances computer, and if you are then there is a trust issue, and when you find out you were right and see that he’s responding to massage ads, well the fact that she retreats to whether or not she should just be more fun FOR HIM is such utter gaslighting bullshit that’s it kinda obvious the LW has lost any standing in this relationship. She should be marrying a partner who she trusts and who wants to be as considerate of her that she is of him. Clearly not the case here.
Doesn’t make it any less weird.
Hmmm, I re-read the letter, and you’re right. It doesn’t specify that they were nude pics. It also doesn’t specify that they were clothed pics, though. So let’s compromise on the spectrum of assumptions: She was partially clothed. Like, maybe she was wearing a hat or something.
A sexy hat!
A sexy TOP hat.
Depending on the region she’s from, it’s very cold this time of year. So, a sexy knit hat? And, wool socks of course.
Do you REALLY think anybody would be so blase about having their naked images bring sent to random internet strangers and NOT been more specific and outraged? Especially somebody so NOT into kinky sex!? C’mon! You all used to be smarter than this.
The sexism here is fucking hilarious. The worst is always assumed about a man and the best is assumed about a women. This week’s letters have sure proved that. Just look at how off everybody was about yesterday’s letter. And then the poor, piled-on LW wasn ‘t even a man…
It’s almost absurdly funny. Everybody here constantly claims I hate women. Hah! Look in the mirror — many of you clearly view most men with disdain and utter contempt. This week has made that abundantly clear.
Geez, BGM. Lighten up a little bit. For someone who says his humor is not received in his comments, I would have thought you would’ve picked up on mine.
True. I missed it. My bad. I am in a HORRIBLE mood today. My bad. I took your first few sentances at face value — and saw red, so I missed the humor. My bad…
If we keep this up, pretty soon we will be holding hands and singing kumbaya.
I’m pretty sure everyone was off about yesterday’s letter because of the lack of information. Those clarifications made a big difference! (And not the one about her being a woman). Just sayin’.
I’m almost of proud of you that it took 2 comments to throw all women under the bus in grandiose stereotypical fashion while defending this douche. Almost.
I’m gonna say this too: this will most likely than not end up in cheating. He’s already doing things behind your back and this will only escalate. Furthermore, he sent naked pics of you, which is just more proof that he’s too shady. Whether it’s right or wrong, people have needs; being kinky is a need of his and if he doesn’t get it, eventually he’ll look for it somewhere else, especially if another girl comes along and is more than willing to participate in kinky shit.
I’ve seen this firsthand. My sister was basically in the same shoes as you and her now ex-husband ended up cheating with various women (also off Craigslist) and doing kinky group shit.
She doesn’t say the photos were nudes. Although honestly I think it’s equally bad either way. Being treated like a fucking baseball playing card to be traded back and forth among guys? Ugh.
Exactly – she’s a commodity at this point, nothing more than a vehicle for his sexual gratification. And she’s already been more than GGG and isn’t comfortable anymore, and this is how she is treated!?! It’s terrible.
How can he be “cheating” when she allows him to sleep with other women and men? Cheating at what? Not a monogamy, which is the whole point of marriage. Why even get married? What are their marriage vows going to be anyhow, “I man vow not to sleep with any other woman unless I can manipulate you into letting me. You, woman, will bend to my wildest fantasies regardless of how little regard they have for you.”
Your fiance is never going to “get over” his kinks. That’s not how people work. I mean, I guess maybe, at some point in the far future, it could be that he just won’t have as much interest in them? But that is a pretty huge maybe.
You are who you are, and he is who he is, and either you are compatible or you’re not. So you need to figure that out now, before the wedding. You’re not going to magically become more interested in his kinks after you’re married, nor will he become magically less interested in them.
So, you can keep exploring his kinks with him, make an arrangement where both of you are comfortable with him exploring them outside of your relationship without you, or move on.
I’m not even going to comment on the picture thing, because only you know if that was a huge violation or not.
But this is something that needs to be figured out. Like, now.
You are NOT kinky enough for your fiance.
He is NOT vanilla enough for you.
This is a match made in divorce court.
Part now. Amicably as friends. And walk away. Sadly, the two of you will simply NEVER work.
I’m the *worst* person to give advice for this so I’m not, but does it bother anyone else when they call their SO their best friend? I mean, when I was coupled up I loved my boyfriends deeply, but it was SO DIFFERENT than the love I have for my best friend.
Yup, it bothers me. Your parents shouldn’t be your best friends, and your SO shouldn’t be your best friend.
That’s the least of this poor girl’s problems…
It doesn’t bother me. I don’t think it’s cool to judge people over dumb stuff like who they choose to call their best friend.
I don’t think its cool to judge people over dumb stuff like where they want to get engaged.
(sorry, sorry, sorry, i HAD to! laugh with me)
both of you to the time out chair
I wasn’t judging! I specifically said it was MY expectation, my beliefs for me…etc etc.
Oh come on, just throw me an LOL!
I don’t really think it’s funny. I’m pretty over the wedding jokes. Sorry.
ha, i read this as “i’m petty over the wedding jokes” and i thought awwww, you’re not *that* bad but you’re getting better with them!
ok, here’s one, knock knock.
Who’s there?
Smell mop.
Smell mop who? I wanna know the punchline!!!
hahahaha, no ewwww i’m not going to smell your poo!
YOU ARE THE BEST EVER! Every day you remind me of why you deserve an appreciation thread.
I love you banana.
AP, whose there?
damn it, my whose there came too late, that was great
Come over here and smell mop.
She wasn’t judging. She was making a comment on how SHE felt, based on her experiences and preferences. Just like your example, of stating your thoughts and preferences on engagement. If anything, you’re the one judging her right now for saying something that she didn’t even say. Oy, people. Just. Oy.
Ok, first, it clearly was a joke. Second, going with her logic, I could say I think all people who calls their husbands their best friends are friendless jackasses who need lives (or any harsh thing you could come up with), but as long as I add an “IMO” its cool. Idk, whatever. Sorry for joking, headed to the time out chair…
So uh, I just realized you weren’t talking to me…but I’ll leave the comment up so everyone can laugh at me.
Yes, just to be clear, that was for GG, not you! But either way, I don’t need to fan anyone’s flames today — I’m going to get back to work!
Well, I do think it is judging my choice to call my husband my best friend when someone says “it bothers them” that I do so. Also the commentary about how “different” the friend and relationship love was made me feel like I was being judged for applying labels the way I do. I mean wtf, why does anyone even have an opinion on who someone, a person you don’t even know, calls their best friend? Who cares?
I’m going to let this go after this comment, but seriously? Pot, meet the freaking kettle.
Yeah, they two subjects are COMPLETELY different. But whatever. Peace out DW. See you next year. I’m done.
Good riddance. Seriously, GG. LBH and I have had issues but you are so thin skinned lately. This most recent exchange is simply fucking beyond absurd. Are you REALLY this fucking fragile? Yikes. No wonder GGuy escapes more than twice a week into the world of weed. You’re beyond exhausting.
Whoa. Too far, BGM.
I’m here to stick up for GG even though I tease her relentlessly and have had my really angry, not-so-proud moments with her. While GG and I are SUPER DUPER different and her rules can cause me to get my panties in a wad, I gotta say that GG gets ganged up on a lot and that’s gotta not feel good but yet she comes back each day and still offers her perspective and that’s an impressive quality. She’s tough like that. And DW would not be the same without a GG – I mean, really, we’d all be so boring if we didn’t have a GG to engage us – so I say GG we need you to stay and get my panties in a wad.
That was very nice Additha.
Yeah, BGM, that was too much, and Addie, you’re very kind, but in this case, I have absolutely no sympathy for GG. She picked a fight — a totally unnecessary one! — and she threw a tantrum when she lost. This isn’t a case of her putting her opinion out there and then getting piled onto. She went out of her way to attack someone else, for no particular reason that I could see. And then lashed out at anyone who called her out for it. I don’t want her to leave forever, but that doesn’t mean we need to humor her, either. I’m normally all Niceness Police but sometimes my buttons get pushed, too.
Yeah, I’m with AP— we all get into tiffs now & then, but people really do seem to gang up on GG, like without even being prompted by anything she said at the present?? Or just minimally prompted? And I feel like with GG, she’s really not being as judgy as people think, it’s just a matter of her phrasing, & she is typically careful to be like, “I’m not judging” when she knows that people will jump on her? She also admits to not always phrasing herself correctly (& also has said she cannot read tone well, I think?) (sorry GG, talking ’bout you like you’re not here, but I’m trying to make a point), & I take her at her word with that & feel like we should all give her, & everyone, the benefit of the doubt. We all know each other here well enough to know where most people are coming from (not that it’s an in-crowd thing because I know there’s also been complaints about that tooo?UGH I’M LIKE SWEATING WRITING THIS). Like, with BGM, I read his comments a certain way, & I read GG’s comments another way. I read Diablo’s comments a certain way, & LBH”s another way. Etc. And shoutout to theattack too, because I know she felt sad yesterday, & I want to tell her I love her too & also everyone.
whewww anyway, I mean, believe me, it’s been kind of entertaining how heated/crazy/silly things have gotten this week… & I do think sometimes people who are harmlessly teasing get interpreted the wrong way? (Like, sometimes I read shit where someone replies totally offended, & I don’t get it, but I do get that we all have bad days, & clearly it is a full moon this week or something) & I don’t want this to be a super PC place…but I feel like I need to say when things are mean.
Aw, that’s nice too Fab. I was honestly teasing and thought that was obvious.
@Banana, oh I hear ya. I *really* do. It can be most frustrating getting into debates with GG … but I guess what I’m saying is that’s fun! … And I’d hate to see her run off. Otherwise we’d all just be agreeing all the time – boring.
I’m feelin’ the love now. Thanks, Fab!
Seriously, Fab, I agree with everything you said 110%.
(too soon? LOVE YOU, GG!!)
I agree with Fab, too. I read everyone’s comments differently. I also sort of distinguish between commenters who may sometimes tease others or be judg-y, but who also show some vulnerability from time to time, and commenters who are mainly just being smartasses and attacking others, while never sharing anything about themselves.
Well Fab, all I can say, that really was great
well that escalated quickly…
110% too soon, Cats. GG, you there? By “GG gets ganged up on” I meant simple it’s often GG (and sometimes TA) v everyone else on issues – not that we like purposefully attack her or something … Eh anyway, now she’s gone, and now we won’t have anyone to debate. Quick someone say something controversial.
a pot pot or like marijuana pot?
Hahaha. I totally didn’t realize that given this week’s letter, it would be read like that 🙂 I mean like a copper-bottomed pot!
someone’s on a roll! banana, sometimes i love you so hard im afraid i might squish you. <— hysterical joke right there.
Hi Banana! I’m red-faced.
Is okay. Banana still love you.
And when you say things like its unoriginal and lame, that IS judging.
Now I’m confused as to who you’re talking to. Me? LBH?
You. Oy. I need a nap. Then a drink.
HI GUYZ. SMELL MY POO. Did y’all see that? That was great.
LW, what’s obvious is that your fiance is quite selfish and doesn’t particularly understand or seem to care about your feelings in this area. He wants what he wants and the fact that you have given it the good old college try and find it really isn’t for you is not getting much respect from him, as far as I can tell.
People really can’t change their basic wiring, so him hoping you will magically get onboard the smorgasbord if you’ll just join in for 1 or 20 more scenarios or you hoping he will get over it and stay home nights is unfortunately unrealistic. Couples counseling? I certainly wouldn’t get married or have kids while such a basic disconnect remains un-addressed in an open, fair way.
‘…he told me that I’m not as much fun anymore and he’s only looking and there is “absolutely no action.”’
Please don’t marry this guy. He violated basic decency (by sending your photo without your consent), he lied to your face (he’s most definitely not just looking), and he blamed you instead of owning his own behaviour. This is one of those basic incompatibilities that people think they can paper over… until 10 years in, he’s had a string of affairs, you have a surprise STD, and you’re fighting over custody arrangements for your two kids.
Ok, I don’t have any advice, but this letter reminds me that I need to get laid…seriously…or even better…some sort of relationship where I’m having consistent sex.
This is the only problem with our special love and long distance engagement
But I concur about the consistent sex. I haven’t dated anyone for more than 2-3 months in so long. And if it takes like I dunno 4 or 5 dates before you even do it the first time that’s like 3 weeks there. So like a month, max two of sex. I need more. Urrrggghhh.
I know, this has to end 😉
I meant the distance, not our relationship
Don’t scare me like that! Haha
I’m sorry Roxy, nothing can ruin our special love
Whew
so with all that ice cream talk above, I really want ice cream, anyone else want some ice cream?
Is ice cream code for sex? Or can this be a “put your hands together” situation
Hmmmm, some sort of combination, while also wanting ice cream, you know how AP said she would like some sex and mac and cheese, well I’d like some sex and ice cream.
Sounds delightful. I’ll get the ice cream.
Flavour? That’s right Americans, it’s f-l-a-v-o-u-r
My favourite (see what i did there) is Ben & Jerry’s half baked, but I can be very flexible.
Haha, OMG- My fiance just did a triple innuendo, our love is that real…I’m also real flexible in my ice cream options
Fabulous, we can start with the favourites and then work our way through some of the more adventurous flavours
Fun fact: I’ve never had ben and jerry’s so this will be a real adventure.
First time for everything….we’ll start slow
Roxy, are you saying we can’t just dive into Ben and Jerry’s, what if I really want to try Ben and Jerry’s?
I like the attitude. Alright, let’s see how many flavours we can get to before we need a break
I’m not sure if we should start or finish with half baked…would this be a hindrance or not? or maybe it should go somewhere in the middle?
Good instinct. Let’s try middle and then we’ll have a before and after comparison
my fiance is so smart, also “if I had a million flavours” sounds like it could be pretty wild
Karamel Sutra….
Enough said 😉
If my fiancé sent pictures of me to someone else over the Internet, I would be absolutely furious! I would probably get my shit and move out over a play like that…but you seem really calm about that, and that disturbs me slightly.
It’s one thing to experiment, and it’s quite another to have someone else running the show and (worse) telling you that because they are pushing your sexual boundaries too far that you aren’t fun anymore. Sure, maybe he likes to have kinky sex, but did it ever occur to your fiancé that he’s not the only person in this relationship? I like to get kinky sometimes, but I have my limits, and you need to feel confident that your boundaries are clear and abided by.
Two years frankly isn’t that long to have been a relationship, though I understand people get married way faster….please think this through and set some serous boundaries (sexual and otherwise) in place and SEE IF HE CAN RESPECT THEM before you attach your legal life to this person.
Look who’s back!
Guys…. I missed drama. Keep the peace while I am taking exams. Geez.
eep, I skipped over the comments and probably these points were made but just in case…
–it doesn’t sound like there is a clear, mutually understood agreement about monogamy or lack there of. The door has been opened (the foursome) and you aren’t clear but maybe you’ve also experimented with people watching the two of you. In any case, I think that once you invite other people into your sex life, it becomes imperative that you have rules in place to establish trust. Without rules, your partners sending pics and emailing massage ads…. are murky. You should both be clear about what is ok.
–I’d also support Wendy’s warning about the importance of sexual compatibility long term. In our first year of dating, I struggled with my husband’s lower (than mine) sex drive. This was a minor difference but I took it very personally and wondered if I wasn’t sexy enough. Over time, as our relationship grew and his love for me was obvious, I noticed that our sex drives fell into sync. I just worry in your case that the gap is so much larger and the potential for trust violations is too high. Sex is such an important part of bonding, communicating, connecting, and loving your spouse. It inevitably goes through many phases but people come into relationships with their own individual taste, drive, and appetite. Based on your description of your fiancee, I don’t think you should expect him to get over it and change. It sounds like he has a very diverse and substantial appetite. My biggest worry for you is that he may be the type that thrives on newness and pushing the limits –like the bar for satisfaction keeps going up.
I have one thing to add to the other excellent comments. If you marry your fiance, you are signing up for a lifetime of feeling inadequate because you will never be able to satisfy his ever-escalating need for more extreme kink. My late husband, who was mentally ill, frequently let me know how inadequate I was in the bedroom. It hurt enormously even though I knew his information about female sexuality was very inaccurate. I was married for 20 years before my husband died, and I do not want your to suffer through this pain.
I know you love your fiance very much, and I know many parts of your relationship are good. But if you marry him, you are signing up for a lifetime of misery in which you will always be wondering why you are not good enough in the bedroom to keep him from kink. Difficult and painful as it is, you need to end the engagement.
Run away!!!! Run as far away as possible. There is no debate here.
He likes to watch other guys have sex with you and tried a foursome? Better get your gaydar checked.
“Whatever you do, don’t marry him …”
Just stop right there. Answer is complete.
Whatever you do, do not marry this boy. He is immature, self absorbed, and a pervert. All kind of pain and trouble lay in his path.
jr
I’m going to be contrarian, late as I am to this party, and say it is ENTIRELY possible he may indeed get “over this shit.” It is however extremely UNLIKELY it will be on YOUR timeline.
Both myself and Mr AM have gone through some fucked up (in our current opinion) sexual phases of our lives. He was a lot like your dude, plus a massive thing for sex workers added in. I will be doom and gloom in one respect here LW, and that is if your dude is not cheating on you, I will eat my iPad. Cheaters aren’t necessarily jerks, or overly suave. Fuck, my husband looks like a grown up Harry Potter and is this adorably humble and modest self-effacing sweetheart… who was out screwing hookers 3-5 nights a week in his “prime”. He was NOT the douchebro at all. He looked and acted like the sweet little dork who you happened to discover had some killer oral skills… 😉 Not all cheaters present as creepy ladies man types.
Me? I was SUPER into kink– group sex, swinger clubs, anonymous sex, some bondage and spanking, very rough sex, etc.
Today?
We’re both Boring As Fuck Vanilla Sex Poster People. I mean… meh. We just can’t be bothered. Been there, done that, have a wardrobe of t-shirts. It seriously does not even interest us. We DID “geet it out of our systems” so to speak. But there was a lot of pain, a whole lot of pain, because he wasn’t honest with me about not being done yet (to be fair, he wasn’t honest with HIMSELF either). At least your guy is being… sorta honest?
But LW? This took years. Like more than five. It was awful. I mean just horrible. I had PTSD from it. Not even kidding. I was SERIOUSLY mentally fucked up by it. It was a total nightmare and I never thought I’d get my mind back.
Don’t marry this dude. Not till you’re certain he’s done, or until you’re certain you can handle the fact he isn’t done.