“Should We Sign a Contract Before Moving In Together?”
His parents are exceptionally well-off and are buying him a condo that we’re both going to live in. We’ve gone over this many times and we’re going to set up a system where I pay him equity into the condo, making me a part owner. Our condo search was quicker than expected and we’re in the process of getting the contract finalized. At the beginning of the search, we also agreed to have a contract about our situation, stipulating things like my right to live in the place in case of something bad happening (break up, death) and what happens if we get married. We both agree to the terms, but I want a lawyer friend to look it over and make sure we’ve crossed our T’s and there aren’t gaping holes or conditions that wouldn’t stand up in court. I’m not a lawyer but my boyfriend is and doesn’t want anyone else to get in the middle of our business.
The main reason we’re doing this is so that we can bypass marriage at the moment but he’s worried that I don’t trust him and that’s why I’m doing this. I do trust him, but I don’t trust an angry ex-boyfriend or a dead boyfriend’s parents. In those horrible situations, the last thing I’d want to do is fight about money or get kicked out. I realize this isn’t the most romantic situation, but I only agreed to buying a condo with this contract and it seems like he keeps trying to postpone it.
We have a few weeks to back out without paying any money, so I want to know – am I being crazy by wanting a lawyer to look at this? Is there a way I can do that and still show him I trust him? Is this too complicated and should we wait until we’re married to buy a condo? However, that might be a long, long time from now and we live in a city that has extraordinarily high rent. — Partner in Acrimony
Oh my god, yes, have a lawyer look at the contract! If your boyfriend is afraid a legal, binding contract means you don’t trust him, then remind your lawyer boyfriend that a marriage is a legal, binding contract, too. And if you sign a contract to protect yourself now, don’t balk if you two decide to get married and he wants you to sign a pre-nup to protect his family’s wealth.
You don’t need to invite Dan, and I agree that it will seem like a gift-grab invite considering he doesn’t even know the couple. As for Brenda griping about having the wedding being where the bride and groom actually live, that’s ridiculous, and it sounds like she wishes she weren’t on the hook for any wedding-related expenses. Brenda can be a grownup and graciously RSVP no and send a nice gift like a normal long-distance family member who can’t commit to traveling for a wedding.
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After declaring me too boisterous/free-spirited for us to work in a long-term romantic relationship, my ex finally called it quits. however, we still at least text every day and he’s still extremely affectionate. After about two weeks of being broken up, I asked him to label our relationship (i.e. “friends,” “friends +,” etc.), to which he replied, “Only people with bad communication need to use labels — our communication is great.”
Clearly, I disagree with him. I would like a label so I know the limits and boundaries I don’t particularly want to share him with another woman, but I don’t just want to be his booty-call either. Should I switch my tactic from asking for a label to asking for boundaries? Or should I withdraw completely and just act like we’re merely acquaintances? — Newly Broken
You’re broken up, so the label you’re looking for is “exes” and the boundary you’re seeking is “stay away!” No good can come from fraternizing with a guy whom you don’t want to share with other woman and who no longer wants to be your boyfriend. MOA.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
LW#3 – Wake up, girl. Your boyfriend said you were “too boisterous/free-spirited” for you guys to work out a long-term relationship? Here’s a newsflash: Your boyfriend is an asshat who wanted to break up, period, so gave you the first excuse he could think of. He’s continuing to text you because he misses the comfort and attention that having a girlfriend provides, but can now avoid having a monogamous relationship with you. This is his idea of the perfect FWB situation.
The only “tactic” you should be employing right now is acquiring some lady balls, mustering as much self-respect as you can, and completely leave this dude in the dust. If some guy breaks up with you because you’re “too boisterous/free spirited,” then you take your boisterous, free-spirited self and find a dude who enjoys that about you.
Please, don’t do yourself the disservice of clinging to a douchebag who doesn’t want to be your boyfriend anymore. Being single is WAY better than being with a dude who actually says things like “Only people with bad communication need to use labels.”
LW1: if both your name are on the title, both of you own it 50%. In case of a break up, the asset would need to be split. Essentially you sell and split the proceeds or he buys you out. Either way you get your money back.
Addie, I am sure will correct me, but I don’t think you need another contract to protect your financial interest in the property. After all you are both owners.
Of course there could be disagreement on how to split it, who gets to stay in it for instance but I doubt it’s something you need to settle going in. Afterall it’s equally likely that you will sell the condo to buy a house and raise children and I doubt you were thinking of including this in there.
The one issue that could get muddy is that his parents are essentially financing your share of the condo and maybe that needs to be cleaned up.
LW1 definitely should have a contract to protect her financial interest in the property. It is true that they are both owners, but she didn’t say whether it is a clear 50/50. Contracts with details are never a bad idea. Property laws can get pretty complicated and very from state to state, so she should have a property lawyer look at the contract, not just a friend who happens to be a lawyer. I’m a lawyer, but I don’t practice property law, so I would not let a friend use me as the person to review this kind of situation. They need to have a neutral third party (not a lawyer her boyfriend works with, not her friend who happens to be a lawyer) look at the contract.
LW1: With your boyfriend being a lawyer, I’m a little surprised that he is so offended that you’d consult someone about it. Hopefully, it’s because he’s being silly and not because he was hoping you wouldn’t understand the contract.
LW2: I think you’re blowing this out of proportion. If your daughter doesn’t know him, then why invite him? I wouldn’t feel slighted if I didn’t receive an invitation from someone I didn’t know. But you must have known that your daughter didn’t know him before you asked, right? Anyway, the wedding is in Boston, not Michigan, so I don’t know what the point is of arguing about it.
LW3: Yes, withdraw yourself. He’s an ex.
What kind of wedding invites the parent’s cousins? That must be some close family members there.
LW1- Get a lawyer. It doesn’t matter how great you guys are today. The fact is people change and you don’t want to get the shitty end of the stick.
LW2- You’ve already asked for the address so you have to invite this guy. How do you have family members that you don’t know all of their children? He’s not obligated to send a gift, IMO that tradition has died out. And I would tell the lady if she doesn’t want to go to Boston to not come to the wedding. It’s not her wedding so she doesn’t get to pick the city.
LW3- What? You’re not good enough to be his girlfriend (or what ever unlabeled thing you want to call it?) but he’s still up your butt 24/7? Tell him to either man up and date you for real with the “stupid” labels that only uncommunicative people use OR he go on his marry way and you’ll find someone else who actually wants to be your boyfriend.
Man, sometimes I wonder about people. These 3 letters are crazy!
1. When your counterparty is a lawyer, you definitely need a lawyer. And I’m leaning towards waiting until you marry before getting into a property with the BF. Face it, you don’t entirely trust him.
2. Dan / Dave , Brenda /Barbera ?!? – just tell his mom that he’s not expected to send a gift or come at all and that you’re just sending him an invite as a courtesy. She’ll do the rest.
3. He thinks that you’re irresponsible and potentially unstable, but probably wants to continue having sex with you.
LW#3 – aw honey. You are his ex that he wants to have sex with while you pine away for him and play supportive girlfriend when it is convenient for him. He isn’t even your friend. Don’t continue this relationship at all – it will just damage your self esteem to be the booty call of a guy whose mature version of breaking up is to blame you for being a free spirit – particularly when you still have strong feelings for him. RR is right – show him exactly how free your spirit is and take it to go find another man who will appreciate you.
You know LW I think this is a good time to sit your bf down and explain that having someone else look at the document isn’t about not trusting him, it’s about doing good business. It can never hurt to have someone check over your work and make sure that it’s done correctly. I know I always have a co-worker check over important presentations, manuals, etc before I let them go live. And a legally binding contract should be gone over in even more detail.
DW, another awesome set of responses. I think this has been the best week ever on this site!
TGIF all.
LW1, definitely have another lawyer look over it. If your boyfriend protests, say you are doing it for his own interests. In most states that have adopted some from of the ABA model ethics rules, pressuring you to sign the contract without representation could cause him to be reprimanded or even have his license suspended. A lawyer who is a party to the contract shouldn’t write the contract in the first place, and if he does, he certainly needs to actively encourage you to seek your own representation. I work in attorney discipline right now, and this is a problem I have seen before.
Get a lawyer to look over it and protect yourself. If your boyfriend has that big of a problem with it, maybe moving in together isn’t the best thing to do right now.
In regards to LW2 – It is ridiculous for people to assume that all people get married “back home”. And, I have some experience with this because my family (NC) is already giving me grief about an eventual wedding in NYC (WHERE I LIVE) and I’m not even engaged yet.
I swear, the entitlement baffles me sometimes. “Well, your whole family lives in NC, why would you inconvenience all of them??”
Sorry, I know I’m going off on a tangent rant, but I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would think the wedding of someone else has anything to do with them. Ask the bride what she wants to do. After all, it’s HER WEDDING!
LW1
A gift is suppose to be a gift. His parents allegedly gift him a condo, but this isn’t really a gift is it?
If I want to give my child a home, I give it to him or her with the deed in his or her OWN NAME. Being that my child is a mature and intelligent adult, I would trust my child with the property. If my child wants give his girlfriend/partner/spouse/companion.. whatever you label it some ownership in the property that is their choice to do as adults.
I understand there are tax issues when it comes to large monetary gifts, maybe everyone is just trying to play out of a tax loop-hole if we give the benefit of the doubt. There are easier ways of gifting your children money in small increments over time without funky weirded-out contracts.
Maybe the two of you could be happier purchasing a condo on your own credit and earnings, without his parents ‘getting into your business’. If they want to gift you money towards the mortgage, that is their choice without the manipulation of contracts.
I understand your points. But why bring up the parents in her letter?
He owns the property with no mortgage. She can be a legal resident, even as a live-in girlfriend that pays nothing.
Why is he insisting she pay him for equity? He doesn’t have to give her anything, and she can still be a legal resident.
She states
“I don’t trust an angry ex-boyfriend or a dead boyfriend’s parents. In those horrible situations, the last thing I’d want to do is fight about money or get kicked out”
If you break up or he dies, you move out because it’s his place and his estate goes back to his parents. Really a no brain-er.
If she is having these types of concerns, then don’t move in with him.
Find a place you can both afford a mortgage together on your own income and credit, like normal people, and both be on the deed.
LW3: If your ex wanted to be with you, he would. That boisterous/free spirit thing is just a nice way of saying “I don’t like you anymore”. And you dont want him to be with other women? too bad. Because clearly he does. that’s why he broke up with you. MOA.
I wonder how the parents feel about LW1 situation. I’d be a little annoyed to be honest if I gave my kid a house and then his girlfriend took half of it with her half basically being financed by them.
LW1 your BF has it made! He gets a free condo, makes money off of it by you paying him to be part owner, and he is a Lawyer! That is mighty nice of him! I guess I just don’t get why you are paying him for something he got for free, when you could be saving your money incase you break up, and if you plan on getting married you can transfer the deed to be in your name aswell. Just set up another savings account that you can put that money in, and that you wont touch that way you have a nice little exit plan.
LW1 – I am a lawyer and you absolutely must have your own lawyer look over this (and any pre-nup -Good God!). Your lawyer bf knows this & should insist on it. The fact that he’s not only not insisting on it, but is trying to discourage you is of great concern. He does not seem to have your best interest at heart at all! And I must say again, do NOT NOT NOT sign a prenup without your own independent lawyer.
For LW1 I’m suprised the boyfriend is offering equity at all.
If my parents bought me a place, and I was moving in with my boyfriend, there is no way in hell I would give him equity. I would probably just charge for half the utilities.
It really just doesn’t make sense – why is he basically selling her half the place month by month? The only time this issue would ever come up is if they broke up, and I’m pretty sure at that point he’d be regretting the decision.
It also sounded to me like she was asking if she even needed to insist on a contract. The answer to that is an unequivocal yes. Every state has a “statute of frauds”‘whereby any contract having to do with land or real property MUST be written. So you will have zero legal claim without a written contract.
As to whether you should get someone else to look at it, of course! Is he a property lawyer or in trusts and estates? If not, get a second opinion because he doesn’t know anything more about it than he learned studying for the bar (most law school classes are more about the theory). and it’s really easy to mess up land things.
Now to be an armchair property lawyer. If someone dies, who is supposed to inherit it? Does he want you to have the whole thing or does does he want it to be apportioned with however much you put in? Is there an amount of total money that you could pay whereby you are an equal owner? At that point, will that change how you want it apportioned if someone dies? If you are doing this to avoid marriage, so you want he agreement to be as close to what would be true under a marriage? What happens when it comes one to sell it? Do you want to be 50/50 or whatever percentage you’ve paid in? How will that be determined? Is all your payment principal or is it part of a mortgage? If it’s part of a mortgage, do you know what the tax implications are? Will you deduct the portion of interest? So you qualify as a landowner doe tax purposes? All of these questions you should figure out before you sign anything and he most likely doesn’t have all those answers. Ask him those and he’ should agree to a third party. Unless he has answers to all, if he brings up “trust” again, bail.
Haven’t read anything else but the first letter and Wendy’s response to it. LW 1: Seriously, you’re right in thinking you need an attorney to look it over. Your boyfriend needs to be understanding of your need to protect yourself, especially since you’re not married and could potentially end up in a really crappy situation if things messed up with you two. Explain to him that you have reason to trust him, but that it’s your policy to plan for the worst case scenario in order to take care of yourself. And if it comes down to it, pull out the big, finger-pointing guns and ask him what he’s so afraid of with you getting an attorney. A loving, considerate partner should understand your need to take care of yourself at all times.
LW3 – I cringed when I read your letter. It sounds like you’re open to whatever your ex wants and you’re just waiting for him to tell you what it is. You’re one half of this unlabeled relationship. Exactly why are you waiting for HIM to label it? Can’t you simply tell him what you want it to be, whether it’s friendly acquaintances, good friends, friends with benefits, monogamous lovers, etc and ask him if he’s on the same page?
He may resist committing to any particular type of relationship with you but then, obviously, monogamous lovers is off the table. And his actions should make it pretty clear if it’s an fwb situation, good friends, etc.
Speak up for yourself. Don’t let anyone else define what your relationship is. You know what you want. If he isn’t providing it, MOA.
correct me if im wrong in thinking this, but isnt this contract that LW1 wants basically giving her the legal rights she would have anyway if they got married OR that she would have if her name was on the title?
i think that the issue stems from the fact that the condo is a gift- his parents are paying for it. so, they (or maybe he), doesnt just want someone coming in, my marriage or by putting their name on the title, and cutting the gift they just gave their son in half. ….
maybe?’
its a very weird situation….
LW 2, please don’t bother asking Brenda what Dan would or would not like. She doesn’t speak for him and she has shown her wedding etiquette to be sadly lacking. Invite him to the wedding just like every other family member or call him yourself if you really can’t deal with just trusting him to be an adult and make his own decisions about purchasing a ticket and/or a present for a family wedding in another state.
LW 1, this is a bad deal. Your LAWYER boyfriend is telling to you sign a contract without being represented (!?!?) and Dude isn’t even paying for the property himself?! It stinks to high heaven, and putting yourself in such a vulnerable position with a LAWYER boyfriend who doesn’t believe in marriage is hideous. Run away from this offer and suggest that the two of you purchase a place together with mutual payments and mutual investment in the property. Dude’s parents can buy him a vacation condo somewhere if they are determined to give him property.
LW1: I wonder if your boyfriend is concerned that you might end up consulting someone he knows who he wouldn’t want knowing his business? I have three cousins who are all dentists in the same state and it’s amazing how often they talk about all the dentists they know in common even though they live pretty far apart. If you have a lawyer in mind, just check that your bf is okay with that person?
LW1- Your lawyer boyfriend should be completely on board with you having your own independent legal counsel look over the document. First of all, if you don’t, you could possibly have an argument down the road that you signed the document uninformed, and that might even make it unenforceable. These are pretty basic legal contract principles- you want everyone to be as informed as possible in order for the contract to be binding down the road. Your boyfriend should know this.
Second, and more importantly, he doesn’t want you, as a non lawyer, to be as informed as possible prior to signing, and HE’S the one that thinks YOU don’t trust HIM? If the contract is on the up and up then why on earth would he have a problem with you understanding it as fully as possible? Ironically, his problem with you wanting to have a lawyer review the contract makes me not trust him.
And the whole “wah I don’t want someone butting into my business” excuse? Um, he should know that attorneys are bound to secrecy on legal matters they work on for their clients. Again, this is pretty basic stuff.
You know him better than I do, of course. Maybe he’s just a little put off by the non-romantic nature of things. Maybe I’m jaded because I’m mostly just exposed to contracts (and situations in general) gone wrong. But you guys are already in the process of acquiring property together, which is a business transaction that has serious potential to affect your financial well-being. Marriage itself is a contract. Do you know how incredibly uninformed most people are about what Community Property even is, who happily and quickly sign on the dotted line to get married when they truly have no clue what the legal ramifications of that contract even means?
*Catches breath* Sorry. Rant over. Please have your own attorney look over your contract, and only sign it if you feel truly comfortable with all of the terms. If your attorney boyfriend is butt hurt over you wanting to understand an important document that you are signing then I can’t imagine he is a very good lawyer.
LW1 – I’m curious why you want to invest your money in this condo? Seems like it just complicates a simple situation. A legal agreement regarding your right to stay in the home in the event of break up, death, etc can be easily drawn up without you having to invest.
You need the contract because you can’t be certain what might happen in the future but doesn’t introducing your investment in the house he owns just make any potential problems more difficult?
Surely, your boyfriend doesn’t mind letting you use his parents generous gift with him. I think you should rethink the financial arrangement.
LW 1- this is not your condo. It is his family’s condo, and you want to live there and own it too. The way you’re going about this is all wrong. Paying someone you love and are in a partnership with, for something they got for free, is a bad idea in the first place. Split utilities and taxes and call it a day. If your boyfriend wants to charge you rent for his free property (I.e., utilize his good luck to turn a profit off of you) then this is not someone you should consider long-term. He doesn’t see you as a true partner if that’s what he’s doing. If it was your idea… Well, it’s a bad idea. You have no right to take part of the condo his parents bought him just because you lived there. Take the money you would have spent on rent and save it. When you have a 20 percent down payment, buy an investment property. Then you can live with your boyfriend but still be a homeowner.