“Am I Superficial to Worry About My Boyfriend’s Money Stress?”
This is something we have talked about a lot, both when we were just friends and now. He knows it’s a problem, but his attitude is that he is too far in the hole to do anything about it, so he may as well have fun. The thing is, he has a decent job and makes a good living, so there’s really no excuse for not living within his means. And to be clear, I’ve tried to help him. I offered to help make him a budget and suggested we could practice saving together — dinners in, doing free activities in the city, and making a game out of it by setting goals for ourselves with small rewards, etc. But he is not interested.
I think what is sending me over the edge now is Mike just got paid his annual bonus at work, and he blew it on a fancy computer that he has always wanted (but certainly does not need). Yet, last summer he borrowed $1,500 from a friend to go to a bachelor party in Vegas and has yet to pay back that friend! (And for whatever reason, this bothers me more than it appears to bother either of them.)
My question is: why is this such a big deal to me? Am I out of line for telling him he needs to be smarter with his money and cut back on his purchases? Should I let that come between what we have — an otherwise great friendship, great love, open and honest communication, and commitment? Should I MOA? Or try not to let something as superficial as money break us apart? — Money or Love
I wouldn’t say money is a superficial reason for a couple to break up — particularly if the couple is considering a long-term commitment to each other. Money is a HUGE reason that relationships bust, and you’re smart to worry about Mike’s irresponsibility with it before getting more serious with him. If you were to marry Mike or have a child with him — planned or accidentally — his finances would play an enormous role in your future well-being. If he can’t live within his means now, how can you expect him to support a child? What does it say about Mike’s sense of responsibility and respect for others if he’d rather buy a fancy toy than pay back a good friend the $1500 he owes him? What does is say about him that he’d even borrow than kind of money in the first place to go to a bachelor party in Vegas?
If you’re in your early 30s and thinking about starting a life with someone, you are absolutely right to worry that that the man you’re currently involved with has such a cavalier attitude toward his finances. But, does Mike know that you’re thinking long-term? Does he know you’re now thinking of him as husband potential? If not, having those kind of discussions with him may go a long way in getting him on track, financially. If nothing else, it will provide an opportunity to see whether you’re on the same page — or even in the same book — when it comes to your relationship. Maybe Mike’s resistance to your “help,” is a passive way of letting you know he doesn’t care about planning for his future because he doesn’t see a future with you. Maybe it’s his way of saying that you have different ideas of what your future together looks like. Or, maybe he simply isn’t even thinking future plans now. But if he knows you are, and he’s interested in keeping you in his life, he may start thinking about his future. You’ll only know if you begin talking to him about these things.
Finally, if you both decide you like where your relationship is and where it’s going, and you’re both interested in exploring a potential long-term future together, you need to make it explicitly clear that he needs to make serious steps toward managing his money better. That probably means seeing a financial adviser. It definitely means changing his lifestyle. And it could mean going to therapy to explore the root of his dysfunctional relationship with money and get support in changing his patterns. He’s also going to need support from you, and understanding that change won’t happen overnight.
If you’re committed to making the relationship work, you’ll need to be patient. But don’t be so patient that you let years of your life pass you by without knowing that you and your boyfriend share the same goal and are both making significant steps toward it. If he’s not willing to make the journey, there’s no point in hanging around the start gate waiting for him.
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Great Advice Wendy! Money is a huge problem in marriages… set the record straight and give him time to see if he will improve his spending habits with therapy etc.. like Wendy suggested… I would not MOA right away but if things do not change… you may need to consider it.
If you’re considering a long-term commitment to this guy (moving in together, getting married, etc.), it’s time for him to fix this. You don’t want to be stuck with the rent and bills every month when he, time and time again, is broke. Suggest maybe financial counseling, and let him know that you need a partner who can be financially stable. But really, if he hasn’t considered changing by now, you might want to go back to being “just friends.”
“Should I MOA? Or try not to let something as superficial as money break us apart?”
Money is not a superficial problem, and you’re absolutely right to put so much stock in it. His debt may run deeper than you even realize, and his attitude about it (too late now, so live it up) is especially troubling. He obviously doesn’t have any plans to get out of debt and it may not be achievable in his lifetime. Do you want the burden of that debt (and its influence on your credit score) if this should move further?
Wendy’s advice is sound. Don’t let yourself back down. This is important!
“you’re right to put so much STOCK in it”…. bwahaha- good pun!
I love a good pun, but I assure you this one was unintentional. Good catch!
BAIL. I used to live with a guy who had debt like this, no interest in taking care of it, no car, and worked part time at a minimum wage job. Like a naive dummy, I paid WAY WAY WAY more than my fair share of our expenses, and when we broke up, he tried to villainize me for ‘not supporting him.” BULLS***.
Lack of ambition and lack of respinsibility to debts? NO. NO NO NO you guys are adults and you deserve better.
OMG did we date the same guy?
Haha! He’s dating someone new now who apparently takes no issue that he’d 26, lives at home, doesn’t have a car, works a part time job for minimum wage (in FLORIDA, where min wage is 7.25/hr!) and he tries to rub it in my face that we broke up and he’s happier now, but its like yeah, okay. I’d rather be not leeching off my almost-geriatric parents, thanks.
If this is driving you crazy three _months_ into your new status, it will drive you absolutely insane in three _years_. Don’t waste any more time with him because this will eventually break you up, and it’s better now than later.
PFG-SCR is right. If 3 months in he drives you nuts, get out now while you still can. No relationship will ever be perfect, but 3 months in you two should be getting to know each other and having fun. You two have different styles and you are not his mother and he will just feel you are being “too controlling”, I get your point about being financially responsible and it is not superficial to look at a long term partner and consider their spending, I think if more people slowed down and looked at what they are getting into, there would be fewer bad marriages and divorces.
Leave him and find someone else. I dated a couple of these before I caught on myself and found my wonderful husband now and he didn’t drive me bananas. Girlfriend, you can do a lot better.
I would break up with him before you fall deeply in love with him and are tempted to help pay off his debts so he can get a “fresh start.” Only for him to rack up new ones of course… it’s kind of like if he had a gambling addiction or something. Responsibility with money is important.
He reminds me of those guys that want to have a one night stand and buy a girl a cheeseburger and then expect sex, dump him, you can do better.
haha what?
My ex built up a LOT of credit card debt (close to 30K if I remember correctly) during his early-mid twenties that he later realzied was due to depression and not knowing how to deal with it – so he bought a bunch of things he couldn’t afford but thought would make him happy. Maybe something like that is going on here? Luckily he eventually realized what he was doing and had significantly changed his purchasing habits by the time we got togther – but that credit card debt was still there and the bills for his house were all screwy. So I started managing the bill payments to make sure everything was on time, and he started a debt relief program through his bank to work on the credit cards. But it’ll still be a good 5 years before his cards are paid off and who knows how long it’ll be before his credit is decent again.
So I’d say to the LW – recovering for the type of debt you’ve described will take years, and if he doesn’t even think he has a problem with spending at this point… well you’re looking at a really long and frustrating road ahead.
Like Wendy and the above commenters have noted, money is certainly NOT a superficial concern for a couple considering a long-term relationship. It has proven over and over again to be one of the main reasons that couples break up or get divorced.
What worries me the most about this situation is that your boyfriend’s cavalier attitude toward money has been going on for as long as you’ve known him – 10 YEARS. And as you noted, the debt isn’t “smart” debt like student loans. This clearly isn’t a recent development – it’s part of a very long, ongoing pattern in your boyfriend’s behavior and way of thinking. I’m afraid that no matter how many times you address it, simply telling him you’re upset about it and want it to change may never be enough to convince him to become more responsible.
Wendy is right, this is probably an issue best solved with therapy and with the help of a financial advisor. I’m concerned that this could quickly become a point of resentment between you and your boyfriend – you continually addressing it with him, and him becoming more and more resentful that you won’t “let him” live his life the way he deems fit. In the end, it’s your choice about whether or not you want to take on this HUGE amount of baggage, and how this could negatively affect YOUR life and finances (what if he wants to start borrowing money from you?)…but I would think long and hard about how the negatives stack against the positives in this relationship.
Good point about the length to time. It’s really difficult to change behavior that you’ve been engaging in for 10 years.
LW, it seems like you see his behavior as a red flag (I would too). I would trust your instincts on this situation.
Wendy’s advice is spot on. If you are thinking seriously about this relationship (and you probably are because if you wern’t committed you wouldn’t worry about someone’s money troubles) then you need to let your bf know and talk to him about it. This is a great time to “check in” with your bf about where you are and where you are going. If you decide to continue on you need to worry about his money problems, because if you combine finances one day they will be YOUR money problems. His poor credit will hurt your credit rating, it will be hard to get a loan for a car/house plus any of your interest rates will be sky high. If he’s not willing to change his spending habits for your relationship and you can’t deal with that stress, then move on. You also need to realize that getting out of credit card debt may take him YEARS. Are you willing to wait that long?
I say all of this so harshly because I had a boyfriend in colelge who had horrible credit card debt (as many college guys do). I had to end up paying for the majority of our dates and even buy him groceries when he couldn’t afford it. Needless to say, I won’t date any guy who isn’t responsible with money nowadays. Many people get divorced over money troubles.
OK so it sounds like speaking to him about his spending habits have yielded little. I completely agree with Wendy – sit him down and explain that you can see a future with him, but if you move in together and combine your finances then you become partly responsible for his debt. Maybe he hasn’t realized that it can negatively impact you as well as him – and if your credit score tanks there goes a chance of purchasing a home or even a car. Even if he isn’t ready for anything austere (it is hard to break spending habits) maybe talk to him about having $300 a month deducted automatically from his paycheck and put into a savings account with the sole purpose of paying down his debt.
There are a bunch of different financial planners out there – some even run couples sessions which work through talking and dealing with money situations. IMO a unbiased professional opinion might be the best person to guide him looking truthfully at his situation. In every relationship there is normally a spender and a saver (and the roles can actually switch based on the situation), but his attitude is rather extreme. You said you have known him for a long time – do his parents have the same attitude towards debt?
If he is resistive to everything then I think the only option is to leave him – money is often listed as the number one reason for divorce and it sounds like he is a sinking ship.
Sometimes money can be superficial, as in… I have so much money I can spend it however, whenever I want. This is obviously not the case here. If that were my BF (three months in is a little soon to be talking money, IMHO… but he sure doesn’t seem to be private about it either) I would be pretty dumbfounded too. Stuff like this usually doesn’t get much better and in my experience, tends to drag the more fiscally responsible party down as well. I think Wendy’s advice is perfect and would take it to heart.
I guess I’m kinda surprised that more isn’t being made about the fact that this guy could so easily screw over a friend. $1000 isn’t chump change, but no matter the amount, that a man would blow off a debt like that doesn’t speak well about his character or his integrity. I would not really be friends with – let alone date – a person that had no respect for their friends like that
I would move on, I would move on NOW, I would move on and not look back. Money is not superficial, please if you take nothing else away from these comments, know that. Money and how a person handles money shows that persons character and morality much more clearly than any other way.
You’re not the only one – I definitely thought about the character issue as well. You’re right…it’s a VERY bad sign that he could so easily screw over a friend and not think twice. It reeks of bad integrity.
My experience has been that the type of guy who would screw over a friend for money can’t be trusted across the board meaning they will lie to you and cheat on you because they want what they want when they want it. If he treats his friend like dirt he’ll treat you like dirt.
I 100% agree with previous comments. This debt is a huge deal! A HUGE deal. The amount of debt is not the main problem. The problem is that he’s wrong that he could never get out of it. The fact that he doesn’t even want to try to get out of debt, and is apparently still using credit despite earning a decent wage, is a huge cause for concern. His comments about how there’s no way out now, while inaccurate, indicate that the does not ever strive to be debt-free. He plans to live this way forever.
I question your boyfriend’s character and integrity. Do you want to be with someone who doesn’t take his obligations seriously? How seriously is he going to take his commitment to you? People who are willing to borrow large sums of money from friends to indulge a whim like a Vegas bachelor party are also the types to cheat. This guy wants what he wants in the moment and he isn’t used to denying his desires, despite the consequences. You cannot trust him, in a general sense, to do right by you.
I think you should tell him that the way he spends his money makes you see him as lacking the potential to be a long-term partner. Even if that does nothing to change his ways right now, with any luck you’re laying the groundwork for him to reconsider how his behavior impacts his relationships with other people down the line. Sometimes it takes many people telling you that the way you live your life makes them not want to have a close relationship before change happens. If he hears it from you, future girlfriends, and friends, he may reconsider his lifestyle someday.
In the immortal words of Tina Fey: “That’s a deal breaker, ladies!” It says something about a person’s character when they don’t feel the need to pay back $1000, especially to a friend. And there’s no way you could marry a guy with ridiculously bad finances. Firstly, because his bad credit becomes YOUR bad credit, and secondly because when you share money there’s no reason to believe he will stop his wasteful spending habits.
Money is only a “superficial” problem if you date like a gold-digging ho (which of course is your choice, lol) and your current mark is broke. Money is not a superficial concern when you’re dating a man who is dysfunctional with his treatment of money. Not only will his issues directly affect you in the future should you stay with him, but, as Wendy pointed out, they could indicate underlying problems of respect, responsibility etc.
I saw a study recently that demonstrated that below a certain specific (fairly middle class) income, the struggle for money does greatly decrease overall happiness in a number of ways. And above that specific income, happiness pretty much levels off. Thus, not having enough money to provide for your basic needs can make you very unhappy, but having bucket loads of extra money is not what makes us happy. I feel like this is a very intuitive concept if you really think about it.
Anyway LW, you aren’t superficial to be worried about this guy’s money habits. You’d be incredibly naive not to at least be worried.
Haha! Ding ding ding! So true. As many have already said, it’s not about money. It’s about values. The way this guy is handling his finances shows irresponsibility, immaturity, lack of concern for his obligations, and the desire for instant gratification. None of these are character traits that anyone is looking for in a life partner. They’re the character traits of someone prone to blow off household chores because they’re not “fun”, undermine your authority as a parent through excessive (or dangerous) permissiveness, and the list goes on. Money – having or not having – may seem like a superficial thing to concern oneself with, but a person’s attitude toward managing it speaks volumes about their character. I’m with Wendy – have a serious talk about the future. If he’s still not interested in making a positive change, then it’s time to MOA.
This is not a dealbreaker….yet. Money is NOT superficial and marriages DO fall apart over it. I am one of those people that racked up a significant amount of debt in my early twenties (mostly student loans, but a significant amount of credit card debt, too), but having a constant dialogue with my guy about what my financial picture looks like (past, present, and potential future), working together on getting me on a plan, and having him as my support system to STICK to my plan has helped me make a huge dent. It will still take me a few years to pay everything off, but I’ve laid all my cards out on the table so he knows what kinds of things he’d have to deal with once we get married.
You have to think about the kinds of things you want you future to hold and be realistic with each other about the affordability of your dreams. If you don’t currently, do you want to own a home? When do you want to buy it? How much do you have saved up for a down payment? How much do you want to save up? When would you like to, ideally, get married? Who would be responsible for those wedding bills? Do you want kids? When would you like to have kids? Is being a SAHM/SAHD something either of you would like to do? Money, unfortunately, is involved in every single decision we make and it’s important to have a handle on it.
It’s not a one and done kind of conversation, either. This is something you should be revisiting on a regular basis, as a couple. My guy and I work as a team for things we share: traveling, Christmas/gifts, wedding, etc. For everything else, we act as individuals, but that doesn’t mean we don’t discuss how much we are allocating for what and how we are spending it.
Bring this up with your boyfriend. It’s definitely not too early, particularly since you have such a good idea of what his financial picture looks like already. It’s not a time to accuse him, berate him, or give him ultimatums. Start a give and take with him about things you are looking for in a SO and find out what he’s looking for. Talk about his dreams and when he wants to achieve them. Use the information he gives you as a basis for framing the money talk. “If you want to have a down payment of $X by X date, this is how much you have to save per month. What can we cut back on, as a couple, to help you achieve this goal?” Make it a team effort, and keep at it. If he doesn’t start to participate, then definitely MOA, but not before you give him a chance to work on it.
Another important thing to consider is whether or not a bankruptcy can/will affect you if you have a future with this man. I am 10 years younger than my husband and he was upfront with his debt right away (mind you, his was all medical for the most part – about 98% of it – for himself or his kids and not credit card debt) and he filed bankruptcy before we got married. Thankfully, it hasn’t affected my credit score since it was filed prior to the marriage, but since I live in a community property state, it affects any loans I want to get (like when I bought a new car).
I agree with Wendy and everyone else that this is not a superficial issue and this is probably a good time to find out if you are on the same page as far as a future goes.
I was also going to touch on the subject of credit score. Something like that could really affect your future. If you end up moving in with him or getting married this could negatively affect your life as well. If you are just dating and decide to move in with him in an apartment – they will check both your credit scores (usually) and it could be that they will turn you down because of his credit score. (A way to get around this is to not put him on the lease as a lease holder but as an occupant)
And if you do get married, that will affect your own credit (remember one of the first freecredit report commercials? Where he’s living in his new wife’s parents basement because he didnt know how bad her credit one). And say you do get married, and something terrible happens and your b/f dies (car accident/heart attack while running a marathon etc etc) . Then you are stuck with HIS Debt. Not only would you have to plan for a funeral (which can be extremely costly) but you’d have the added stress of the fact you just inherited 80k in debt.
But yeah, I agree with most of the other responses that state that if it’s driving you this crazy and you are only three months in, not only is it easier to gracefully back out now and try to remain friend status, and if you do stay you could possibly grow to resent him more and more.
This doesn’t mean that things CANT change, but if they are going ot change he will need outside help with how to manage the finances and so that he can work on his debt. Also maybe you could work on therapy together – because as someone else said, his spending habits may because he’s falling into depression and the only way he can feel he can be happy is to ‘live it up’ and do extravagant things (like blow 1k in Vagas), and it would also give you a way for you to work on not resenting him as he tries to work through his issues (financial and other wise). By having an outsider helping both of you it could be benifical because then you aren’t nagging, and the communication lines are more open for both of you to get off your chest what you are feeling about everything and not just discuss money woes.
Are you absolutely certain that when your spouse dies, you take on all of their debt? What about debt accrued solely by him (buying a car for himself for example), or even debt accrued by him prior to the marriage? Is there a difference among different types of debt? And I’m assuming this varies depending on community property laws in each state. It’s hard for me to believe this would be a simple black and white issue, but I’m not married and I haven’t personally looked into these types of laws.
Anyway, I’ve heard of attorneys recommending pre-nups for the specific purpose of keeping individually accrued debts separate, but I’m unfamiliar with the particulars…
i dont know either, but i’ve seen on TV all the time the situation where the father dies and the family inherit all his debts from like, gambling, club memberships, etc. Also I’ve heard death doesn’t expunge student loan debts either…
so i ugess someone has to pay it
What you’re talking about sounds more like a decedent’s debtors being paid from his assets prior to those assets being bequeathed to any heirs. I’m pretty sure you cannot inherit someone’s debts unless you were a co-signer on those debts, or unless that person was a spouse (that particular issue of spouse debts I am cloudy on though).
Anyway this is completely off topic but it’s interesting to me… I’m off to go independently research and leave this poor topic alone! 🙂
I completely agree with Wendy and the other commenters. This is not a superficial issue and his attitude about it is a huge red flag.
While in University I dated a guy for about a year and money was a big reason why things ended with us. Since we were both students, neither of us had a lot of money but I was in a slightly more comfortable financial position and always felt obligated to pay for everything. One time we took a small trip together and I booked it on my credit card, with the understanding that we would split the cost. However, when it came time to be reimbursed he kept lamenting on how it couldn’t afford it. I started to resent ALWAYS having to foot the bill and what made it 10 times worse was his attitude towards money. He always complained about being broke but didn’t even make the small efforts to save money that I am always careful about. For example, he would always go out for lunch instead of taking the time to pack one, or he was too lazy to pay his cell phone bill each month and instead paid interest charges. He was throwing money away while I always worked hard and sacrificed certain things to save.
I now know that it’s really important to me to have someone who has the same values surrounding money. This is already an issue to you 3 months in and it will only get worse as you become more serious. His debt would hinder your ability to get a mortgage as a couple. If you ever decide to share your finances, how would you feel to see him blowing both of your paychecks? If you become common-law, or get married, his debt would become your responsibility if something were to happen to him.
I don’t think anyone would judge you if you broke up with him over this.
Judging by the letter, you are both in your late twenties or early thirties. Both of you are grown people. While it may sound harsh, but I think you should get out now. In theory, everything that Wendy said is possible. But I think it ignores the fact that your boyfriend is a grown man and he constantly makes conscious choices with money, and they are consistantly bad. It’s not like he’s had no opportunity to change, it’s that he has chosen not to. That would be a huge red flag for me. He made a choice to get a toy over paying back his friend. Do you think that choice would have been different if he owed mortgage? Bottom line, he has an opportunity to change and behave responsibly, and apparently he has you willing to help him, but so far that is not a priority for him. Do tell him what’s bothering you, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
LW, if you knew that your boyfriend was financially irresponsible from when you were friends before, and he hasn’t changed now that 10 years has passed, its probably time to MOA. If you really want proof that he’s not going to become more financially responsible (more proof than you already have), look at what his family life is like. Does his parents have the same irresponsible tendencies? Did his parents always spoil him? It may give you insight into why he is the way he is. But remember, you probably can’t change him. No matter how hard you try, he’ll probably always be this way.
I know this is slightly off-topic, but I’m always careful to judge the moral character of someone in debt or whether or not someone in debt is date- or marriage-material . . . because I am in a HUGE amount of debt. From medical school.
Unlike a lot of my peers, I did not come from a rich family of doctors or old money. My parents are a nurse and an electrician, and they have always been responsible with money. So much so, that they were able to pay for the small amount of college tuition that wasn’t covered by the scholarships I earned. But when it came to medical school, I was on my own. I’m at least $250,000 in debt from those four years . . . before interest.
After I met Dr. Mr. Dr. Majin (who, as I found out one YEAR into our relationship, IS from old money; and physicians, though he has is PhD. Anyway.), money eventually became a big challenge. He has a trust fund, where I have a MONTHLY student loan payment with a comma in it. But what has saved us is our clear, open and frequent communication about it.
And that’s the takeaway from this, I think. Money IS a huge deal, but more important than using at a reason to judge someone is the communication you have on the topic AND that you both are comfortable in the way it is being handled.
MOA!!!!! No really, MOA. MOA MOA MOA MOA. At least, for the love of GOD, do not marry this guy until he has been out of debt for 3 full years.
Wow, in my country, if you’re in relationship for more than a couple of years, you have a claim on their assets but you also share their debt. My bestie ended an otherwise ok marriage as his gambling and debt was getting overwhelming ama she had to stop it to protect the few assets she had left
This LW has already tried very hard to help her bf with his money troubles so I see no possibility that further efforts will result in a change. If I were this LW I would have a heart to heart with him stating that I am breaking up with him and hoping he will get his life straightened out. I’d tell him that his attitude toward money and his debt is not something I can understand, because he has no interest in figuring out how to deal with it responsibly. I’d say that I hope he sees a therapist and a financial expert so that he can live a happy and fulfilling life and that I wish him the best. In short, MOA and tell him why.
Mike needs to be in your rear view mirror. This guy didn’t make it a priority to pay back a friend $1500 he borrowed but instead bought himself a computer. Don’t invest any more time or brain cells on someone who’s spent years digging himself into this lifestyle. He’s not going to change unless he decides to not for anyone else.