“He Says He Has a ‘Fear of Relationships'”
When we got back, we kept seeing each other, but he hasn’t seemed all that interested in getting to know me. Our conversation revolves around flirting and sex. I’ve tried to steer it otherwise, but it’s very hard when he doesn’t seem too invested.
Then he tells me his live-in ex of over a year cheated on him with a married man. I’ve also been cheated on by my ex, so I know how devastatingly hard it can be to overcome. But he says he thinks he has a fear of relationships now. And that brought a red flag to mind of “commitment phobe!” I’m hoping not but after observing how he is with me, I’m worried he might be.
He’s going away for work in a week and will be gone for a few weeks or so; I’m worried I’m going to get hurt again. He knows I like him, but he never compliments me unless it’s in a sexual way. And whenever I’ve been worried and tried confronting him, he becomes all ambiguous or tries to avoid it by saying we’ll talk more later and “we only just met” which, ok, maybe, but a lot has happened (i.e., I slept with him too soon, which I regret but have been trying to turn around by not sleeping with him so much, trying to go out during daytime, not go to his place, etc.).
Please help! What do I do to get him to see me in a different light? Aside from not knowing if he really wants to be with me or just wants a mistress, it’s the best relationship of my life! And I feel like we could be really good together if only he wasn’t afraid to open up. It’s driving me nuts to say the least! — Different Light Needed
Unless this is the ONLY relationship you’ve ever had, it’s hard to fathom how this is “the best relationship” of your life. You said yourself he doesn’t seem interested in getting to know you, and that’s sort of essential in a good relationship.
This isn’t even really a relationship. This is a 40-year-old guy preying on a naive, inexperienced 25-year-old young woman. He doesn’t want a relationship with you. He just wants to have sex with you and maybe hang out a little bit. This isn’t about him being cheated on before or him being a commitment-phobe or you sleeping with him “too soon.” None of that matters. It’s irrelevant because…he just doesn’t care that much about you. I’m sorry.
Take a lesson from this two-week relationship: When a guy tells you he has a “fear of relationships,” that’s code for he “just wants to bang you without any strings attached.”
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
WWS
WXS
WWS
For one thing, you really haven’t known him that long. For another, this can’t be the best relationship of your life, because this is only barely a relationship. And the kind of relationship it is, is friends with benefits. You might really like him, but that doesn’t change the fact that he doesn’t want to date you, and do you really want to be in a relationship with someone you have to convince to care about you? Cause that actually sounds pretty depressing.
There’s nothing wrong with friends with benefits relationships, if that’s something you enjoy. But that doesn’t sound like what you want with him, so MOA
Dude, if you have to write to an advice columnist about a guy you’ve been seeing for 2 weeks, MOA. And don’t beat yourself up for having sex with him “too soon”. Sex should be fun, not something you use as a bargaining tool to get a guy into a relationship.
Yes to everything you just said.
“Sex should be fun, not something you use as a bargaining tool to get a guy into a relationship. ”
OMG. This.
‘Or so he says…’, so you don’t believe that he’s never been married or you’re not sure? Also it’s been two weeks no matter how fast you’ve moved you did only just meet! If you’re unhappy with how fast you moved tell him that. But, the one thing you can’t do is make him want the same things you do. Also maybe listen to what you’ve learned from this if two weeks is two soon for you to do certain things with a potential bf without being outside of your comfort zone, then next time, don’t.
Everybody say it with me now: “He just wants to fuck you.” (It’s actually pretty fun to chant. Especially if you clap along as you say “He” “wants” and “fuck.”)
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And LW, it’s fine if he just wants to fuck you. But if you want a relationship, find it with someone else.
WWS. If you are looking for a relationship, look somewhere else. And women of the world: You can have sex with someone the first time you meet them and get married and stay together forever. How early you have sex really doesn’t matter when someone cares about you and respects you.
Sex on the first date marriages FTW!
Oh oh I have a fun game for us all to play on this lovely Monday. The game is everyone who forked their spouse/significant other on the first date has to come forward – you know, to show others it’s not a LONG-TERM-RELATIONSHIP KILLER and/or a BAD THING to sleep together right away if that’s what you want to do! And so others can stop beating themselves up for “ruining” their relationships by sleeping together quickly – gawd that mind-frame makes me wanna puke. Ok, show yourselves! (Come on, this is fun for all of us – well mostly us, not you)
Whoops.
I had sex before we defined anything. We were friends. Hanging out. Drinking. Had sex. And then started dating after that.
Yea, me too. I can’t say first date, bc we never really had one.
You skanks. I made Colin buy me 3 margaritas first, because I’m a tough sell.
Yup. Went home with a rando from a fraternity basement. Hooked up but no sex that night because we were both drunk as a skunk. Continued hooking up and started having sex. At some point much later decided we were dating. 4.5 years later I want to murder him for leaving wet towels all over the house. So…still going strong?
That was us, minus the drinking (well, I was drinking plenty, but he wasn’t). We were friends for about a month, then FWB for a couple more, and a few years later here we are all old and married. I think we had a first date in there somewhere, but I can’t tell you when or where or what we did. But it probably involved a lot of sex in my college apartment, because that was pretty much our routine by then.
Yeah, we slept together before our first “official” date. Oh well.
That steps it up a notch! You didn’t just have sex on the first date, you had sex before the first date. GG wins! 🙂
GGuy is a gentleman and insisted on taking me to see I Am Legend if we where going to keep sleeping together.
My parents read this, so I will neither confirm nor deny anything about my sexual history, especially in regards to my now-husband. But I will say that sex early on does not kill the potential of a happy, longterm relationship and anyone who thinks it does is fooling themselves.
BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I told you guys this game would be so fun.)
Also, hi W’s D! Can you believe your wild daughter?!
Everyone knows I boned my ex 5 times on our first “date.” We were together for a year, so not a bad run.
Holy crap. Either that was a long date or you guys were 19. 5 times?? I’m impressed.
I had a threesome on a first date. Yes, a threesome (I was drunk and horny and really liked one of the guys). The guy I liked and I started a relationship after that, it lasted 2 years. I admit I thought that was ridiculously unlikely after such a sexual experience, especially as the other guy was his best friend, and he was around a lot (no, we did not repeat the experience, ever).
But, yeah, even such a wild thing can STILL lead to a relationship.
Ross and I didn’t, but my ex and I did, and we were together for over 5 years.
we were having sex for months before we become “official”. actually, honestly, we were in a long distance relationship before we became official. we finally talked about it when i visited him in south carolina. haha
Uhh… I kinda thought that WAS our first date, though the evening is a bit blurry to me now.
Okay I have one more comment on this. (Well I probably have like 5 comments, but that seems obnoxious). I am kind of shocked that this is still such a scandalous notion. It’s like everyone is doing it. And it’s not a big deal. Even if you bang on the first date who cares? It has never stopped me from getting into relationships with the guys. And even if it did so what?
Also, I joked about Colin that shirt that from Bad Santa that says “I fuck on the first date” because I actually feel like it makes him skankier than me, and tell him this all the time.
I don’t get why anyone would want to be in a relationship with the kind of person who would fuck you and then get all “well you’re the kind of person who fucks on the first date, so no relationship for you!” about it. As if… they weren’t?
Also, I’m gonna defend the dude in question a bit. He’s been banging a 25 yr old for two weeks, how the fuck is he supposed to know if he wants to be in a relationship or not?! Honey, enjoy a man who knows his way around the bedroom showing you a nice time. If you ARE the kind of woman he wants a relationship with, eventually he will notice. But frankly you should not be interested in a relationship with him either; you don’t even know him! Just keep enjoying his penis and once the OMG SEX hormones wear off you’ll either find out you like him or don’t.
I disagree with this because it’s pretty obvious she ISN’T the kind of girl who can just sit back with casual sex. She’s looking for more than that, and she won’t ever get it from this guy. For some people they’re ok with it, others aren’t. Either way is fine, but with him as her partner she will never get what she’s looking for.
eh, i dunno if we can make that call. we dont know if she is ok with casual sex or not- we just know that she feels that the sex now has affected her relationship prospects with this guy. those are two different things.
Regardless, she seems to want a relationship and she won’t get one from him.
I waited til the 5th date because I’m a lady. Just kidding! That’s just what felt right. I asked him to be my boyfriend a week or two after that (around the 1-month mark) and we’re getting married this fall. I’ve dated several men who I didn’t sleep with on the first date and we ended up not having a serious relationship or getting married.
Also, does anyone else have George Michael singing “sex is natural, sex is fun” stuck in their head? I sure do.
You are too funny. I read that first line and was like, oh man, you are gonna get ripped to shreds. Nice one!
My mom is really religious and totally weary of what her two ultra liberal daughters do on dates. She always asks my sister and I to act like ladies around men so that’s been an ongoing joke with us. By “us” I mean my sister and I – I don’t think my poor mom would find it remotely funny.
Aww, moms. You gotta love em.
I always catch myself when telling Lil to act like a lady, when I really mean act like you have manners. So it comes out as act like a lamaners. Idk. Thought it went with the story haha.
hey stop being so friendly with LP she’s my buddy! 😉
Stop threatening me or I’m going to tell Wendy.
LP, whose hotter? me or addie?
i called dibs on LP as early as De-Lurker Day! dems da rules, halfpint.
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but ok i’ll work with you. you can be friendly with my lurkers (i have dibs on a few others) so long as it’s accompanied with a disclaimer that reads: “The foregoing is in no way intended to be nicer more more genuine than anything Addie has said and Addie is still your best buddy. God speed.”
Wow, I felt like the belle of the ball until AP said she has dibs on several de-lurkers. Ouch. I’ll decide who’s hotter after I’m done sobbing gently in my cube. I hate crying at work.
See what happens when you are tricked into thinking you’re AP’s only one? She does it to all her lurkers. Its disgusting. I will love you and only you LP.
Ouch, that back-fired! Haha. LP, there’s only you!
I’m only hurt, AP, not mad. I’d still eat all your icing if we’re ever at a wedding together. I love icing! Sugar is my jam (although I don’t literally like jam, it’s too chunky – I prefer jelly).
whoa, is there a difference between jam and jelly? my whole life i never knew!! in any event, i don’t like either. too sweet. i don’t like sweets. except cake but only when it’s more bread-like. so, wanna be my plus-one to my first ever gay wedding?
I thought jam had chunks of fruit and jelly didn’t, but that might be a rule that exists entirely in my head that I mistakenly think is universal. There are a lot of those. I have issues.
I’d love to be your plus one at the wedding! I would eat all the cake, get a little tipsy on champagne, and start ranting about how much I hate Arizona and Uganda. In other words, just a regular Monday night for me.
I thought preserves was the one with chunks? And that jam was just…I dunno, thicker? than jelly? hmm. Where is Alice? She would know.
“In jelly, the fruit comes in the form of fruit juice.
In jam, the fruit comes in the form of fruit pulp or crushed fruit (and is less stiff than jelly as a result).
In preserves, the fruit comes in the form of chunks in a syrup or a jam.”
the more you know! (i got you alice no worries)
jam nerds!!!
DUDE, me too! 5th date must be the charm. (or not)
such a prude.
I had sex with my husband before our first date. We hooked up one night and then he asked me out on a date the next week. And we met in a hot tub. Love can happen anywhere apparently lol
i gotta start going to more hot tubs.
I can honestly say that was probably the only time I’ve hung out with random people in a hot tub, so I’d rank the success rate of finding a husband in that scenario at 100%. haha
Love comes to those who soak?
Upon thinking about it, I’m a “sex on the second date” kind of gal, with a crazy intense make out session on the first date. My fiance and I waited until the 3rd or 4th date* before taking our clothes off, but waited almost a full month before doing the deed because I wanted to get on birth control.
We totally had sex on the first date and we’re still together 3+ years later. He formally asked me to be his girlfriend a couple days before we went on our first date though.
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading about all you slut balls! (Kidding)
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It’s only fair that I also disclose: slept with my ex on the 2nd official date but if you count the first time we met (pourquoi pas) then it was the 3rd date.
I’m just gonna toss this quote here, simply because the topic is a few days old. It gave me a smile. I hope it will do the same for those of us who have struggled in that “giving it up too soon”; self-shaming; sex=caring; place in life. “I didn’t have a ‘one night stand’. I held an audition & the person just didn’t make it to ‘call-back'” 😀
Good grief. We say around here a lot if a guy tells you who he is or what he wants, BELIEVE HIM. He told you outright that he doesn’t want a relationship. Don’t hold out for him because he doesn’t want what you want. It has absolutely nothing to do with timing — you would NEVER be good together.
This “relationship” is not built on sturdy ground. It sounds like he is taking advantage of you and that’s concerning. In the beginning of the relationship, things *should* be easy. It should still be new and awesome. You shouldn’t be trying to “convince” him to have a relationship with you.
Look, I’ve been there. I know how uneasy it feels and I know how much you WANT to have a relationship with him. I was in the exact same boat. I can also tell you if I could have a do over in my situation, I would have MOA’ed a LOT sooner.
LW– You do know that if a man on crutches approaches you in a parking lot and asks for help putting something in his car that he’s most likely a serial killer, right?
It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.
“Oh honey. No.” That was actually my first thought. This is just so much no.
Like someone else said, you should never have to convince someone to go out with you. If he actually wanted to have a relationship – if you were someone he cared about to have a relationship with – it wouldn’t matter how scared he was. He wouldn’t care, or he’d figure something out.
Look, there’s no secret formula to deciding the absolute perfect timing to sleep with a man so that he won’t think you’re slutty (I still don’t understand how a man can think that of a woman he himself has had sex with) and won’t think you’re a prude. I hate that women still feel like prudes and whores are the only kinds of women you can be, and I hate that we’ve somehow convinced ourselves that having sex (or waiting till we’re comfortable) with someone we’re attracted to can ruin a relationship with that person.
If a man dumps you because he feels like you “gave it up” too soon (ugh), the problem is not that you had sex. The problem is that you had sex with an asshole, and you dodged a bullet.
@PL, based on your last line, a lot more women are having anal sex than i previously suspected.
THIS! LW, listen to the wise Painted_Lady
Ok, so I get what everyone is saying. And this guy really does sound like he just wants to sleep with this LW and noting more. But….
What happened to just dating. Two weeks is NOT long in my opinion. Why do people have to decide within two weeks if they need a relationship? I know everyone is different, but for me, that’s moving way too fast.
In summary, yes, I think this guy is probably an a hole. Especially given his age. I also think the LW is jumping the gun a bit. Maybe if she said two months….
I don’t think anybody is saying he should want to jump into a relationship within 2 weeks. It’s just the fact that he doesn’t want to hang out with her during the day, he no longer seems interested in doing anything unless it leads to sex, he’s giving her lines about being afraid of relationships and he’s not putting much effort into making her feel like he cares about her. I think that makes it pretty clear that he’s not interested in a relationship ever, he just wants to bang. Which is not what she wants.
So, MOA. A guy doesn’t have to jump into an immediate relationship but if he likes a girl and is interested in that possibility, he’ll act like it.
Isn’t it normal the first two weeks you start banging someone that ALL YOU WANNA DO IS BANG THEM and everything else is kind of brain foggy?
I was BFFs with Mr AM for years before we got busy finally (long before anything resembling a date) but for at least the first six months we were having sex I was honestly kind of upset if he wanted do some sort of date type thing NOT involving sex. I was seriously get frustrated if he wanted to do some long talky thing or play some stupid game. I wanted his pants off and his penis in me. Now. We could talk later. We used to joke we were catching up for all those years we wasted not having sex.
But in this case he legitimately TOLD HER outright that he has a fear of relationships. It may be normal, but this particular situation is not something she seems comfortable with.
Why does the guy have to be an asshole though? To me, it doesn’t sound like he lead her on. He hasn’t called her his girlfriend or talked about wanting a relationship. He’s been pretty upfront about his intentions, if you ask me. His intentions are to have some fun with the LW, and that’s it. If anyone’s the asshole, I think it’s her for being a clinger and not listening to him when he tells her he’s not into commitment.
I don’t get the sense that he’s being an asshole either. It’d be kind of rich for most people to blame him for not outright saying, “I just want to sleep with you; I do not want to date you, ever” because I have met very, very few people who are that forthright. And a naive, inexperienced 25-year-old? I don’t buy that; people are adults at 25 years old and are responsible for handling themselves. He’s not preying on her, she’s just refusing to see what is in front of her face.
I completely agree with this. It’s not asshole behavior to not want a commitment, it’s asshole behavior to say you do and then act the opposite way. But that is not what’s happening here. This guy is being completely above-board, telling her exactly what he is looking for and what he doesn’t want, and yet SHE is the one saying he must be a jerk because they took a day trip but he won’t be her boyfriend (sidenote: WTF is that?!).
And I totally agree with WAPS. She’s 25, not 15. If she can’t figure out that a guy who says he doesn’t want to be her boyfriend actually means that he doesn’t want to be her boyfriend, that’s completely on her.
I was the LW with the divorced dude that I went out with so I can see where she’s coming from. I’m getting a LOT better (Navy Guy and I were dating casually for over a month before we became “official”) but I just don’t like casual dating overall. I don’t like the gray area and I can see the LW not liking it either. It is sad this is the “best” relationship she’s had though.
Please don’t take offense to this, but I kinda giggled at this. Is it even possible to become “official” in under a month?
ps I gave you a thumb up to negate your offense to this comment. Fair?
I mean, gf and I went from no-these-aren’t-dates to a relationship basically instantaneously. Like, it wasn’t defined or anything. It’s not like she was dating anyone else, and I was through dating other people.
Some people (not me) only date with intent. Hell, I had a Muslim friend who would get engaged every time she dated a man, because the idea was that if she was dating him, it was to see if they were going to get married. Different strokes.
Weren’t you guys friends first though? I think Ross and I became “official” after about a month, because it took that long to see each other enough times to be able to make a decision. I think that’s all lbh is talking about.
Also, I’m fascinated by your friend. How many men did she get “engaged” to? Did she marry one of them?
That’s what I was thinking. I meant it about people who’ve never met before date #1.
My BF and I met online, so total strangers before our first date – we were “official” by our third or fourth date (three weeks later.) Though it came up more as him saying “so, can I call you my girlfriend now? Because people keep asking about you and ‘this girl I’m seeing’ doesn’t sound right.” And I wasn’t seeing anyone else and neither was he, so we just sort of went with it. That’ll be almost four years ago now.
I don’t even really know what “official” is. Haha. Like after the first time we had sex, we “officially” agreed to not sleep with other people- so is that “official”? But we also agreed we weren’t “officially” bf & gf…so not “official”? Then we weren’t “Facebook official” until like 8 months in…so do those 8 months not count as “official?”? But he met my mom like 5 months in…so??? haha.
obvz “official” is when you get the letter back with the “yes” box checked and little hearts around it. duh.
perfection
It is possible, but both people have to be on the same page about it and have discussed it.
I define “official” as we started using the titles of boyfriend/girlfriend. We’re still pretty far from serious. Ultimately we both want similar things from a relationship, but we’re taking things really really slowly.
Which letter was that, Lyra?
I think she meant she was like this LW when she dated divorce guy.
ohhhhh, i get so excited whenever someone outs themselves as a letter writer i jumped the gun
Nope, I’m not a LW. Sorry AP. 😉
im with you. i dont think this guy has done anything wrong…
He couldn’t have been more honest, which makes it weirder that LW doesn’t see what it is that he actually wants from her.
Face Palm Friday came early this week! Also, can we PLEASE put PL’s last two sentences on t-shirts or mugs or cross-stitch them on pillows? 🙂
Ugh this was supposed to be a reply to Painted_lady! 🙁
LW, you need to chill the hell out. It’s no wonder the guy is wary of a relationship with you. If this is how much drama you’re generating after two weeks, the thought of how much you’d create after 2 years would alarm anyone. Parsing every compliment? Saying “a lot has happened” when it’s only been two weeks?
Back off. If he’s interested, he’ll act interested. If he’s not, you just saved yourself from wasting any more time on him.
On my phone, sorry.
@ktfran – For me, it wasn’t so much that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship *right now,* but more that he’s already making those stupid excuses that men (possibly women too? Just haven’t dated any) make when they don’t want to be in a relationship with the person they’re currently seeing but want to put off the actual “no” because they want to keep having sex. And it’s that he has no interest in having conversations that don’t go back to sex.
@Diablo – That made me laugh really hard.
WWS, WEES. I mean, yeah, it’s only been 2 weeks, but to me, the writing is on the wall? This guy is a 40-year-old musician who has the “I’m so hurt by my cheating ex” line & “Let’s go on random crazy adventures, I’m so freeee” persona down to a art. LW, you seem to be looking for women’s mag type advice like “Don’t worry if you slept with him ‘too soon'” (which, I agree with everyone else, there is no “too soon”) “—you can still backtrack by hanging out during the day! Refuse late-night booty calls! Hint around being taken out to dinner!” But I can tell you, even if you waited & shown you wanted to be DATED (however one does that?) this guy would still want a fling. Because that’s what he wants. I know you like him, but it’ll probably be best to drop things for the sake of your heart, & let this romance be a fun story you tell to friends…
Aim higher!
That’s all I had time to write at the moment. Now LW, you don’t do anything to get him to “see you in a different light” because he won’t. He doesn’t want what you want. You are just not compatible in that way. Move on and let some room in your life for an actual, good relationship.
Also sex is not some game to play in which you can only have it a certain number of times and in a certain sequence to have a relationship. That is silly, have sex with who you want to when you want to and use protection. If that means you do it on the first date and don’t look back, great. If that means that you only have sex once you are in a serious relationship that is totally okay too. Do what YOU want.
“Oh honey, no” Best Monday morning advice.
It’s been 2 weeks.
He lost interest because you stopped having sex with him.
Did anyone else think of the musician Carrie dated in Sex and the City and how flaky he was? I just kept thinking of that throughout the entire post and Wendy’s response.
Move on. You are 25. There are plenty of fun, free spirited men around your age that would actually want to hang out with you.
FFS.
This guy doesn’t want a relationship. He wants to bang you. Not everyone wants to have a relationship!!!! So ladies (or anyone, for that matter), if you want to be in a relationship, look for someone who also wants to be in a relationship. Why is this concept so difficult for people?!
“Oh, honey. No.”
My thoughts exactly. He’s made his wants clear (casual sex). If it’s not what you want, MOA.
I have food in my fridge older than your relationship, LW.
I did until last night. It was pretty embarrassing.
ha 2 weeks, that’s like a short shelf-life for things hanging around in my fridge…
Haha. I should really do something about this.
I have food older than two weeks! Our CSA veggies hold super well.
“What do I do to get him to see me in a different light?”
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Be less easy.
Just say no to slut shaming.
How is that slut shaming? He buys her a drink and all of sudden she thinks he is so into her. Nothing, I repeat nothing, about “being easy” was referring to her having sex too soon.
Perhaps “accessible” would have been a more appropriate word?
“easy” is a well known term for a woman who has sex too soon or too often. The term itself is slut shaming.
“easy” is a well-known term for a lot of things. For example, it is too “easy” for her to convince herself this guy may have a change or heart. It is too “easy” for her to ignore the blatant truths he is giving in his lack of desire to have a relationship. It is too “easy” for her to let him get away with dodging her questions when she confronts him. It is too “easy” for her to not walk away from this because she so badly wants a relationship. It is too “easy” for her to ever say no to this guy, because if she did then the guy would disappear. So she is being “easy” in the sense that this guy does not need to do much more than look at her for her to convince herself there is something there. I am all about sexual freedom and having sex whenever or wherever you so damn please. I don’t even believe there is such thing as a slut. But don’t pretend for a second that if this LW was not so easy accessible for this guy that she would be in the same position she is now.
Okay all of those things are true but when all you say is “be less easy” with nothing to explain what you mean by “easy” what do you think the lw is going to think you mean? Especially when she is a young woman who is already shaming herself for having sex too soon! Obviously your comment came across as slut shaming since it got so many thumbs down.
No, it got so many thumbs down because it was suggested that I was slut shaming and it had already received thumbs down, so the theme continued. No one chose to interpret it a different way.
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I actually found this quite fascinating. In reality, my comment was saying what most of the other comments were saying: This guy only wants one thing, so you need to stop giving it to him or else he will continue to lead you on. But why was mine the only one perceived as mean? Was it because it was so shortly said? Is it because I am a guy, and I have no business being so blunt to a woman? Why was the very first instinct to read it as some sort of shaming? Nearly all aspects of her situation suggested she is too easily letting him call the shots. So when I suggested she needs to do that less, why was the only interpretation of that coming from a position of sex? Seemed a tad defensive, if I’m being honest.
Its the way you said it, I think. Coming out with a comment like “you are easy” as opposed to “This guy only wants one thing, so you need to stop giving it to him or else he will continue to lead you on.” is gonna get you down thumbs. I’m surprised you don’t realize this by now.
What pisses me of is how he said and to whom. According to mainer, women (who sleep with a guy after a few drinks, etc.) are “easy.” But it takes two to tango, mainer. So for every easy woman out there’s an easy man …. yet, no one calls men “easy.” Fuck that nonsense.
That was not what I was saying at all, so that is not “according to me.” I think that is a bit of a stretch to make those connections and only meant to further instill the notion that I am some sort of misogynist when, in fact, I am not.
i think you’ve missed my point. define “easy” however you’d like. i don’t care if you think people should or shouldn’t sleep on the first date, after a few drinks, or after weeks of friendship and i dunno what. We all have our own sense of what’s appropriate. But what irks me is the double standard. So quick to call a woman easy… but i just don’t see the same standard held for the men who are also having sex right away. for example, in all this talk about easy, it’s always about the woman… No one called the dude this LW slept with “easy.”
The guy the LW slept with is NOT easy, he’s actually quite stubborn and difficult. Why would we tell her she needs to move on because he’s being too easy?
*
I get your point – it’s the old high-five to guys and finger scolding toward woman when it comes to sex frequency. I think you have a valid point, but I don’t think this situation was an appropriate one to stand on that soap box. For what it’s worth, I agree with you – I think society fews the behaviors differently depending on the person’s gender. But if you think I hold that position, you are wrong on that point. I don’t think anyone can have “too much” sex, and I believe both men and woman are capable of being too easy sometimes. I mean men, almost universally, are the real easy ones when it comes to having sex.
Questioning if its bc you’re a guy just makes you sound like a jerkoff though. Btw. I didn’t even know you were a guy. haha
I was being facetious – I know of the male/female ratio here and how there is a strong female camaraderie. It was just a little nodding joke toward that.
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Appreciate the jerkoff comment though.
Wait, were you also being facetious about not realizing the connotations with calling a woman “easy?” I feel like if you don’t know how that’s gonna be taken, maybe you aren’t like, from America. I was pretty surprised you were surprised no one liked that.
Honestly, when I submitted the comment I really was referring to all aspects of what she is doing, but just did not feel like spelling it out like every other comment. It is only afterward I realized “oh, yeah, that’s going to be interpreted different.” Then I just went with it because I’m a jerkoff, and tried to explain my real intention even though I knew it was a lost cause. Then the whole “sociological” breakdown of interpretation was mostly facetious.
I didn’t know that you are a guy either so my comment had nothing to do with that. Obviously you do see how your original comment can be interpreted offensively but instead of copping to that and clarifying you demanded to know how I could call it slut shaming.
Yeah, I think if you had said something like “easy to fool into thinking there is a relationship present” you would have been better understood. I don’t think it’s surprising we jumped to the more obvious meaning of “easy”.
Yeah, no.
Why is being accessible a bad thing? If he was the right fit for her it wouldn’t matter. All this letter shows is that these two people are on different levels of what they want right now. And it sucks, but its just how it is. Honestly if a guy I just wanted to be FWB with was acting like it was a relationship I’d act just like the guy is. Its ok to realize you don’t click with someone in regards to your relationship needs, whether sex was had or not.
You are dating Juan Pablo from the Bachelor right? Yeah, I thought so….sounded like it. He swept you away to a city unknown to you where you frolicked along hand in hand and kissed magically in the sunset.
Does he ever say to you “look at me?” when you are having these conversations?
Seriously though, LW, my whole life I was raised Catholic and taught to wait for sex and the right guy will wait for sex and sex is special and it means something when you have sex. When I met the first guy who wanted to have sex with me it was like “wow, someone actually does care”…. sex = care. sex = love. sex = I’m not gross. In my life today sex means all those things because I held men to a higher standard. I didn’t have sex with men who thought sex = fun. sex = mental release. sex = no commitment.
My advice? Hold men to a higher standard. Get what you want out of the relationship before you have sex. The relationship is the cake….sex is the icing. It’s great to have icing with no cake if that is what you want but I would look to make sure the cake is there before eating the icing in the future if I were you…
I once ate so much icing – that really gross stuff from the grocery store that came in bright kelly green – that I got so sick and puked kelly green vomit all night long. It was traumatizing. Today I usually scrape the icing off my cake, or if I have icing the cake-to-icing ratio on my fork needs to be like 9-1. We’re still talking about actual icing and not sex. I’ve never thrown up from too much sex. Just to be clear. And certainly nothing kelly green ever came out.
must have more icing than cake. the cake itself is dumb. everyone should just replace the cake part with a spoon.
you’re just the kind of person i like sitting next to at weddings. i’d trade my icing for your cake.
Me too. Icing is stupid. Cake is where it’s at.
Ok so we can’t sit next to each other at weddings. … Oh in law school I had this friend named Alex who ate like a rabbit. I ALWAYS sat next to her b/c without fail she could never finish the other half of her wrap, her fries, her wine…. And you know not one to want food to go to waste, I took one for the team and ate her leftovers. You’re welcome, world. I loved Alex. I miss her so much.
Couples should ask for icing vs cake preference, so they can spread everyone out accordingly when they do the seating charts.
It’s how Emily Post would want it.
As long as we can hang out outside of the cake time.
I threw up from sex. Well, I got pregnant from sex. Twice. And both times I threw up for five months. That counts, right?
Having sex or not having sex has NOTHING to do with a guy’s interest level in you. I have a few good friends who had sex with their now fiance’s the first time they met. This is such an outdated and harmful way of thinking, that if you just hand’t had sex, this guy would want to date you and spend time getting to you know. It has led you down this clingy, weird, obsessive rabbit hole of trying to get this guy to want to be with you when the reality is, this guy sounds like he doesn’t want to date anyone, and is not looking for any kind of commitment. If you hand’t had sex with him these would still be the facts, except he probably wouldn’t have even bothered talking to you past the first time you guys met. Like others have said, if you want a relationship, seek out someone who also wants a relationship, preferably with you. As if a dude wanted to date you, regardless of his “issues” he would do so.
Totally. I think what’s true though is that if you’re the type who tends to get attached quickly after getting physically intimate, then it can be better to hold off. In that case it’s not because of the guy’s reaction but because it’s more comfortable to you. Although evidently you run the risk of only finding out that you’re not sexually compatible later on.
Yes having sex has nothing to do with a guys interest in you UNLESS he and you share the same VALUES when it comes to sex. There are men out there that sex means he loves you (I know, I found one) and there are guys out there where sex means nothing. I just don’t think the LW knows this.
My advice to the LW is the same as yours too “if you want a relationship, seek out someone who also wants a relationship”
“There are men out there that sex means he loves you (I know, I found one) and there are guys out there where sex means nothing.”
I don’t think most people are either one or the other. You can see sex both ways, or neither way, or more than one way – even within a loving relationship.
haha that’s what I was just trying to say.
Bottom line is only have sex when you want to for no other reason than you want to. Its quite simple.
Yeah, why does it have to be sex=love OR sex=nothing? Sex is so many things, and lots of things all at once. I miss it. 🙁
I never said this wasn’t a possibility….. It’s all in what you want. I personally did not want someone who thought sex meant nothing about his interest level. Just my personal opinion.
But there’s also guys who think sex means:
fun
mental release
commitment
no commitment
love
like
etc.
It can mean all those things to the same guy. At first for me and my boyfriend, sex was only fun/no commitment/mental release. Today, its fun, mental release and love.
I disagree. When we started off, Peter and I were fwbs. We also shared the same values. But we only had sex bc we enjoyed it. It had nothing to do with our values.
Get what you want out of the relationship before you have sex.
Sex isn’t a bargaining tool. I think that you can have sex with someone and still get everything you want out of a relationship, and it is a bad message to be reinforcing that waiting for sex in a relationship would make that relationship work, or better, or give you all you want out of it. If you are with the right person and the relationship is right, the timeline for when you do or don’t have sex has no bearing on anything.
I’d also note that sex=fun is a mindset that can create a great relationship that leads to sex=love and sex=commitment. There is a large overlap between people who can have sex that’s fun/a mental release and people who are capable of having great relationships with meaningful sex. Those groups are not as disjoint as this comment makes them out to be.
I think having sex with men who think sex is fun while expecting them to treat you with honesty and respect (note that respect DOES NOT have to equal commitment… someone can respect you as a human being and still not want to be your boyfriend) is not a low standard. It’s high enough to ensure you’ll be treated with respect and honesty.
In fact, if the LW simply held the men she slept with to the single standard of “honesty” she would not be sleeping with this guy, who is dodging her questions instead of answering them head-on.* She doesn’t have to hold him to the standard of “sex=love” to figure out that he’s not the one for her. But if that’s how she wants it — she wants sex after commitment — then you’re right, she should be sure the commitment is there before sex, and not expect it to magically follow. (True story, I just typed “sexpect” by accident.)
*She should also, however, respect that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship and stop pestering him to commit. It’s a double-edged sword, that respect thing.
yes, if what you want is sex = commitment or love, make sure you’re only having sex when that is the case. if that is what you want. but sex can = fun and mental release while meaning commitment, etc. in fact if sex doesn’t equal fun and mental release (at least to me) then that’s sad! i mean yes i love my husband but if we didn’t have sex i would be so unhappy. because sex is fun, at least it should be. lots of fun!
as long as you are on the same page, which obviously this LW is not, i’m not sure she’s on the same page with herself! that is the most important. know what you want and know how to communicate.
Haha yeah I don’t think she’s on the same page with herself. Someone who has sex early, then apologizes for it to the internet for no reason, and “tries to cut back on it” by hanging out with him during the day instead of, I don’t know, TELLING him she feels they had sex too soon and she wants to slow it down… yikes. That is someone absorbing a lot of mixed messages from a lot of stupid women’s magazines. Including, apparently, “if you have sex and he doesn’t commit, it will be because you are a big old slut, but if you have sex at the exact right non-slutty time, it will magically make him want to commit.”
Exactly what I was trying to say.
Uugh “Look at Me”. I hate when he says that!!! So happy Sharleen left.
I have decided not to watch anymore. I can’t watch….
This was the first time I watched more than the last episode, so I don’t know if this has happened before, but it was so nice to see one of the women actually thinking about whether the Bachelor was actually the kind of person they’d like to spend their life with. I’m so glad she left.
Do you NOW have sex with a man who thinks sex = fun/mental release? I would hate having sex with someone who didn’t consider it fun.
of course he thinks it’s fun…but I don’t have to worry what he wants out of the relationship after we have sex. 🙂
I don’t think the LW does need to wonder – he outright told her. Sex or no sex, he doesn’t want a relationship. I don’t think if a couple has sex it necessarily changes anything about expectations of a relationship.
yeah it’s just not what she wants to hear! so she’s ignoring it and hoping she can change his mind.
Yeah, I think sex should always = fun. sex = fun and sex = love can definitely overlap!
I guess my biggest question is why you even want this. What’s so alluring about trying to convince a man that he should want to be with you? Don’t you want a relationship with someone who isn’t afraid of them?
Eh, it’s too simple to cast the guy as the villain. But hardly accurate. Look, sorry, this LW is not naive — but instead rather dim. He has been VERY upfront that he is NOT into relationships. He has told her this. Repeatedly. She just refuses to hear it… Meanwhile, her own behavior — falling into bed without even so much as a real date would definitely make many a man think she is not exactly looking for a deep relationship either.
PS — What delusion makes some think that a man saying he has a fear of commitment somehow truly means he wants YOU to help him get over it? Trust me — when somebody says they have a fear of heights — it isn’t code for “but by all means, please take me skydiving.”
The foundation of this “relationship” is sex. So, it’s pretty much only going to be about sex. Sure there are some people out there interested in getting to know you afterwards, but I think your best bet is to get know someone before, just so you can avoid these kinds of problems. If you don’t like to have sex without commitment, that’s perfectly fine & don’t listen to those who tell you that you should feel otherwise. Personally, I don’t get the appeal of even being naked in front of a stranger, let alone sex. To each their own. But if you don’t like having sex without a relationship, then don’t have sex til there is a relationship. And this is not even a relationship, especially since it’s only 2wks, and he clearly has no desire to know you (except in the biblical way…). Be true to yourself. Find someone who handles sex & relationships the same way you do.
LW, sex isnt your issue. people (exhibit A: above commenters) will pretend like it is, but it really isnt the issue. now, it is an issue- it breaks my heart that you are feeling guilt and/or sadness and/or regret about having sex with this guy… it breaks my heart because i remember what that feels like. so for you, separate of this whole pretend relationship problem, you need to tackle this negative sex thought process and patterns you have embodied. where did you learn it? how often has it affected you? do you agree with it? really tackle this, learn from this, and if need be, change your frame of mind, because i cannot tell you how freeing it is to make your own decisions about sex sans regret and/or sadness and/or guilt. its incredible. get to that spot for yourself, in whatever capacity that takes.
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now, about this pretend relationship- oh LW, two weeks? really? i mean i get that this guy is showing signs of being a dick, but- TWO WEEKS?? do you not see how crazy this is? because its crazy. this guy is doing nothing wrong- he met someone, had sex with them, took a mini vacation with them, and has continued a mostly sexy fling with them. all of that is fine! it sounds fun in the right circumstances. but it is not a relationship. and there is nothing you can do to make it so. that is just not how life works. so, you have three options- 1. you leave, because this isnt the type of relationship you want to be a part of, 2. you stay, hoping and praying that he will eventually read your mind and do what you want him to, or 3. you accept this type of relationship as the type of relationship that he is willing to offer and have fun. option 2 is for crazypants people, so you have 1 or 3.
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ps for the future, you might want to actually get to know a guy before you push for commitment. you know, date him, have some fun, see what kind of person he is BEFORE you even start to think about whether you two should be together. insta-commitment is not always a good thing. the need for it, in my opinion, points to something missing in your life … and that something will never be filled with a relationship, fyi.
Ehh, I get what you’re saying, but I think that there’s a difference between trying to get someone to commit TO YOU and trying to gauge whether they are just out for sex. Two weeks is a short time, but I think that if a person you’re seeing shows no interest in getting to know you as a person, beyond sex, then I think it’s acceptable to make a judgment based on that.
that is exactly the process im talking about. that whole “get to know him, date him, have some fun” part. thats what i mean- before you go all “what can i do to change this???” why dont you just figure out what “this” is. and this guy is being so glaringly obvious to the point of actually saying that he doesnt want a relationship. so, she has had fun and gotten to know him a little, and if she doesnt like what she sees, then she should walk away. she should make a judgement on this situation! i wish she would!
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and come on, she IS edging to get this guy to commit to her. she is trying to figure out how to get “him to see me in a different light” ie. how do i become girlfriend material? that much is painfully obvious.
I used to think that having sex too soon made the guy lose interest in me. I slut shamed myself. Honestly, though, whenever I really *thought* about it, I realized that frame of mind didn’t make any sense. ‘If only I would have waited a few weeks to have sex with him- then he’d still be interested in me!’ what? Where did we get that idea? 90’s rom com’s? Like keeping your body from a guy casts this magical spell on him that makes him fall in love with you? Nah, it’s just that if he was going to lose interest in you after having sex with you on the first date, he was going to lose interest no matter what.
There’s nothing wrong with waiting a bit before hopping in the sack if you get easily attached or put a lot of power on sex (sex=love), but that won’t get a man to fall in love with you and want a relationship with you. That will only keep you from having sex with the men who don’t.
LW, re-read what you wrote and try to look at your “relationship” with an outsider’s point of view. It’s pretty black and white. Not every guy who buys you drinks wants to have a relationship with you. That’s okay. It really has nothing to do with you. Be flattered that he finds you attractive and move on if you want something more substantial than a booty call. Chalk this situation up to “wanting different things” and move on. You will drive yourself *insane* analyzing every guy you go on one date with.
All I have to say is IT’S ONLY BEEN TWO WEEKS!!!! Chill out girl!
best advice evah
You seem to think that deeming him to be a commitment-phobe after he says he is afraid of relationships is jumping the gun, but that’s essentially what he flat out told you. I think the concept of a commitment-phobe is used when it really shouldn’t be — like simply not wanting a relationship doesn’t mean you’re “afraid” of commitment — but regardless, he told you he doesn’t want a relationship. And to top it off, he acts like he doesn’t want a relationship.
If someone tells you explicitly that they don’t want to be with you that way and then backs that up with action, then believe them.
Thanks for pointing out the difference between “commitment-phobe” and someone who simply doesn’t want a relationship. I think we fling around the term commitment-phobe in our culture because being in a relationship is considered the most highly desirable lifestyle — in fact, more than that, it’s considered the STANDARD lifestyle, so anyone who doesn’t want that must have some kind of problem (a phobia). There are some true commitment-phobes (people who do have a fear of commitment that can be worked out with therapy and open-mindedness) but probably not as many as chick flicks would lead us to believe. And then calling any guy who doesn’t want a relationship, a “commitment-phobe” turns into a sort of immature ego-crutch, like people who look back on past break-ups and blame them 100% on the other person instead of seeing it as an incompatibility issue, or even something that both parties contributed to breaking down.
Exactly! A lot of actual commitment-phobes I’ve known have really thought they wanted relationships, but had trouble trusting, etc. It’s about fear and insecurity more so than being some kind of player, a lot of times.