“I Caught Him In Bed with Another Woman!”
I have been with my boyfriend for three years, and honestly can’t picture my life without him. Last week, though, I came home and found him in our bed, passed out with a naked woman. I had been staying at my place while my mother was in town. He knew I was coming home early that morning. That was the day we were planning on leaving to go on a 7-day cruise together.
Let me start by saying he’s not an idiot, because only an idiot or an uncaring dolt would have a girl spend the night when he knows his live-in girlfriend is coming home. He got intoxicated the night before, and I believe he is truly remorseful. But, I can’t help but wonder….why? Drunkeness is no excuse. He can’t remember the evening, so I made him call the woman to find out what happened. (Some back story: he met her at the gym and says she told him she was interested in him and he told her about me. He says they talked briefly every few nights over the phone.) He refused to call her in front of me, and called her when I wasn’t around to find out what happened. He told me they had sex on the sofa and in our bed without a condom, but also said he couldn’t finish, and passed out because he was so drunk. He has a drinking problem. Now, he swears he won’t touch alcohol unless I’m around, he’s moving to my house because I can’t stand to be in his, and he’s re-decorating his home.
I want to contact the woman, but I don’t want to betray his trust, because I know he wouldn’t want me to. I also know she likes him, and I probably can’t trust what she says either. I know there are three versions to every story: his version, her version, and then the truth. But, in my case….I don’t know that I’ll ever get the truth, and I want it to move on. He swears he feels nothing for her and that he’s the biggest idiot in the world. (I’m not arguing with that fact).
Where do I go from here? I want a life with him, but I don’t want to hurt myself. I love him, I want to believe him, but I’m scared. — Cheated
Um. Okay. So … wow, where to start? First of all, your boyfriend’s an idiot. I feel the need to point that out because you seem confused about whether he is or isn’t (in the second paragraph you say he isn’t, but in the next paragraph you admit that he is). You also seem confused about whether you live with the guy or not. You call yourself his live-in girlfriend but then you also mention that your boyfriend is moving to “your place” and that he’s redecorating “his” home. But, really, none of this matters. What matters is that your boyfriend cheated on you (without a condom!), made up some cockamamie story about “not remembering” the details, blamed it on being drunk, promised never to touch alcohol unless “you’re around,” and you’re actually going to let him move in with you after all that?! Darlin’, if that’s really the case, your boyfriend may not be the only idiot we’re dealing with her.
Furthermore, what good would contacting the other woman do? Your boyfriend already told you that after talking with her on the phone for several days, he had sex with her (again, without a condom!) on his sofa and his bed, so what version of the truth could she share that would enlighten you further? What, exactly, do you suppose she could say that would make you any more or less willing to forgive your boyfriend and move on? I mean, if the version of the truth he shared isn’t enough to make you dump his ass, what version of the truth would be? Would she have to tell you that he threw himself at her? Would she have to tell you this wasn’t the first time they hooked up? Would you even believe her if she did?
Look, you caught them red-handed. You saw her in his bed naked. And you’re still willing to let him move in with you?! You’re willing to excuse his behavior because he said he was drunk (was he drunk when he exchanged numbers with her at the gym?)? You say you want to “believe him.” But, believe what? That he doesn’t remember what happened? That he doesn’t have feelings for this woman? Is that seriously going to make it OK that he cheated on you with some gymbo all over his apartment? Come on! Have more self-respect than that. Give this guy the boot. Kick him to the curb. Tell him adios. If you don’t want to get hurt further, it’s really your only choice.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
MOAMOAMOAMOAMOA!!!!
I know it hurts. What he’s done to you consumes your day now, your gut is clenched in a knot, your blood pressure is boiling. You can compulsively check and watch everything he does from now on and it still won’t stop the pain. You can watch him night and day and still never trust him. You can run every word he says through your mind searching for inconsistencies and still be in pain.
When he exchanged numbers with this woman he was setting this up to happen. He didn’t have to decide at the moment he got her number whether it would happen but he was giving himself the opportunity. When he was with her, in the heat of the moment, he didn’t care whether you would be coming over early in the morning. He wasn’t thinking about the morning, he was living in the moment. He wasn’t thinking of you when he exchanged numbers, he wasn’t thinking of you when he kept talking to her, he wasn’t thinking of you when he had her over and he wasn’t thinking of you while he was having sex on the sofa and in the bed. That’s all you really need to know to make a decision.
You could talk to her and she’d probably be glad to tell you everything because she wants him and the best way to get him is to let you know exactly, in detail, what he did with her. When a woman is the affair and wants the man she will often do something so that the partner finds out. She may have made sure he got drunk enough to be passed out and that she was naked in bed with him when you found them. Even if she set the scene he still was a willing participant.
I know it’s hard because you love him and that doesn’t stop just because you’re drowning in pain. He may be the person you’ve been turning to for comfort and now you’re turning to him again but he’s the one causing the pain. I think you can MOA or you can stick it out for a while and move on later. For what it’s worth, the first option will hurt less in the long run but many of us try to fix the relationship and end up doing the second option. I think your relationship is broken beyond repair but knowing that doesn’t make it any less painful.
LW should definitely think long and hard about your 3rd paragraph, regarding talking to the woman (who I will refer to as OW [Other Woman], from here on, so that too many pronouns won’t make what I’m saying confusing). I agree with you that OW doesn’t have pure intentions at all – not only did LW’s boyfriend OW about LW before they had sex and OW still went through with it, but OW’s still talking to him after she was caught by the LW in bed with him!
It’s highly plausible that OW is trying to get the boyfriend all for herself, and thus I don’t see how it could possibly be productive or positive for the LW to contact her. OW obviously has no respect for LW, as a woman or a human being, and I highly doubt that OW would be kind to LW if LW were to call her. In fact, OW would probably try to hurt LW worse, to drive LW away from the boyfriend so that OW can have him all to herself.
LW, you don’t deserve any of this pain, disrespect, or drama! Drop this boyfriend like a hot potato — you deserve, and will find, a much better man!
Oh dear…LW, you are just pathetic. How could you not just dump his sorry ass? How could you accept to be disrespected like that? I am sorry but I cannot feel any compassion for you 🙁 I would like to tell you to MOA, but it’s pretty clear that is not what you are going to do. Have fun the next time this happens (and believe me, it will)
I know millie seems a little harsh to y’all, but I agree. when I was reading this letter, I got the feeling that she will NOT leave this guy and it probably WILL happen again. I personally believe that douche “may not be the only idiot we’re dealing with here”. I think she wants Wendy to reassure her that it’s not THAT bad and it’s ok to stay. Purple thumb away!
Ehh. I think in this case, harsh is needed &I agree with milli. I’ve seen way worse here on DW than this comment.
I totally agree with you- I have a “friend” whose boyfriend does this kind of shit to her ALL THE TIME and time after time, she keeps going back to him because she “loves” him. After something bad happens she comes to us saying how it’s really over this time and she can’t believe how stupid she was, but then she keeps going back. I get the feeling that LW is the same way. He’s probably pulled crap like this before, and he’ll probably do it again and she’ll go back to him time and time again.
I agree! What a freaking idiot. Her, being the idiot, not him. This guy’s dumb like a fox. He gets his “gymbo” (great term, btw) and he gets to move in with his girlfriend but still keep his newly decorated love nest, I mean, home.
Seriously, LW, get some counselling, because you clearly have no self worth. Even if you are kinda dumb, you still deserve someone who will not cheat on you.
It’s not easy to just turn off the feelings you have for someone, despite what happened and despite knowing (in your head) what you SHOULD do. It is super-seriously painful, and it’s hard to move on. She’s in denial, but the truth is standing in front of her demanding attention, and she needs help to move forward. That’s why she’s writing-for support to do what she needs to do. It is gut-wrenchingly painful to accept that the person you loved and trusted with everything would so callously betray you. It’s disorienting and leaves you feeling shell-shocked and unsure of a lot. Have a little heart.
It would be different if she had a history of going back to him after he kept cheating (which I agree is something he will likely do). But right now, she’s just trying to make sense of everything, keep her head on straight, and come to terms with what to do now. I am currently getting divorced after my husband had an affair…and I wanted to take him back and believe he would change and that he still loved me. I didn’t do it, though, despite how much I wanted to. I am moving on and doing what’s best for me, and I am finding it as hard as the LW seems to be. Bolster her up, don’t tear her down. And don’t assume you know what you’d do in her situation or how you’d feel or what you’d say. You don’t know what you’d really do until you’re there.
Please MOA. He wouldn’t even call the girl in front of you (how can you be sure he called at all?) – so how is he doing everything in his power to win back your trust? And while mistakes happen and people cheat, having you find out by finding a girl naked IN HIS BED is just thoughtful and cruel.
Ugh. The idea of finding my boyfriend like that is making my skin crawl, and that’s just my imagination.
You deserve better. No one is worth putting up with that kind of hurt. MOA and find someone who will not only be faithful, but respectful. And be happy you ditched this loser while you had the chance.
By thoughtful of course I mean thoughtless. It’s hard to type in comments on the phone. 🙂
“And while mistakes happen and people cheat having you find out by finding a girl naked IN HIS BED is just thoughtful [thoughtless] and cruel.”
While it’s undoubtedly very painful to see your significant other in bed with another person, should that aspect alone change our advice to her? I could understand if he intended on her finding them in bed together, but I’m not sure that we can say that he did.
That image would be pretty hard to forget. I know that could change my opinion. Not only do you have to deal with the memory of his betrayal, the hurt feelings, and the lack of trust between you, but every time you look at him the image of him naked and this women naked could be haunting.
MOA! Here’s the deal: you want to forgive your boyfriend for a drunken one-night-stand. I get that. BUT, this doesn’t have the set-up of a forgivable one-night-stand. He exchanged numbers with the woman AND COMMUNICATED WITH HER ON A REGULAR BASIS while sober. I personally would consider the conversations he had with her prior to that night as infidelity, when all the facts are considered. So, no, your boyfriend didn’t make a drunken mistake; one way or another, he planned for this. Read: HE WANTED TO CHEAT ON YOU. Just be glad you still have a place of your own, and send that loser back to his own pad.
YES, exactly! This isn’t a case of whether or not you should forgive your boyfriend for a one time, drunken hookup, which depending on the circumstances maybe, possibly, MIGHT be forgivable. This wasn’t some random woman he met while wasted at a bar and things went too far (not that THAT would be okay, either), but rather a woman he met at the gym, decided to exchange numbers with, and communicated with on a repeated basis! He made a series of deceitful choices by being in contact with a woman he KNEW was interested in him, and all of that led up to one HUGE mistake when you found them in your bed!! At least, one huge mistake that you know of…
LW, you seem obsessed with the idea of finding out the “truth”, as if that will somehow improve your situation or make you feel better. Maybe this is because it is easier to focus on the details of how it happened rather than the consequences of what happened. This must be an incredibly hard situation for you, but you need to realize that, as Wendy said, nothing else you could find out should change things. I mean, there is no way he lied and told you a WORSE version of what happened, so really what you already know is the “best” case scenario – which is already unforgivable. Unless you are okay with looking the other way while he continues to cheat on you in the future, you need to MOA.
Plus the LW should probably go get checked for STDs, because if he shagged the gymbo without a condom, it’s possible this was NOT the first time.
From the sound of it he even wanted to get caught. That’s selfishness personified.
That’s what I thought! He was going on a week-long cruise the very next day and had to get an early start? Sounds to me like the guy was trying to find a sure-fire way to get himself dumped, and the poor LW won’t even give him that pathetic satisfaction.
I absolutely loved Wendy’s “gymbo.” Did she coin that word? Should be in the dictionary!
“I want to contact the woman, but I don’t want to betray his trust”
But it’s okay for him to betray yours?
What’s with all these “My boyfriend got so fucking drunk he did XYZ” letters? Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve never seen the appeal of getting drunk, much less so drunk that you lose all sense of appropriate responsible adult behavior.
Find yourself a grown-up.
YES YES YES! I about choked on my breakfast when I read the “I don’t want to betray his trust” line.
I KNOW! Someone has convinced her that she doesn’t deserve to be treated with respect. I’m biased, but I wonder how much influence her BF has had on her self-esteem? I think it’s pretty rare for someone to suddenly become as selfish as this LW’s BF.
I actually yelled at my screen when I saw that line. Don’t want to betray HIS trust? He’s already betrayed YOURS, multiple times, LW! WTF?!
She should do some growing up first before she searches for a grown up.
Here’s the thing – he betrayed your trust, LW. If he wants to be with you after not just boinking a stranger in his (your shared?) bed but giving her his number and being in touch with her before said boinking, then he needs to be TRANSPARENT. He needs to be open about calling her in front of you, about what happened, about never seeing her again – whatever it takes to win back your trust. If he won’t do that, then there IS no relationship worth saving….. and personally for me, even if he WAS willing to be that transparent, I’d still DTMFA.
Ahhhh omg I couldn’t even finish reading this. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!?!
You found your boyfriend, NAKED, IN BED, WITH ANOTHER WOMAN, but he’s such a great guy & he was oh so drunk & wasn’t aware he was having sex with another woman until he calls her, NOT IN FRONT OF YOU because he refuses…OH! & he had already previously met her at the gym!?!?!
Seriously LW, please tell me you have more sense than this!? Get ahold of your dignity!!!!!
P.S. had I walked in to the same scenario you did, I would’ve started flippin’ some tables…
Oh my…I just read the condom part…Dear Lord!
I know…I desperately hope she hasn’t slept with him since the incident, or is at least practicing safe sex. That honestly would be enough for me to end it. Sheesh.
I just can’t believe that after her whole letter she “doesn’t want to betray his trust” & wants to “move past this.”
I too, hope she has not slept with him since then!
& oh yeah! It would be quite the shit show after the table flippin’ !!
I love the flippin tables part of this comment! I agree, had I walked in on this scenario, ass kicking would only be the beginning of my angry black woman moment.
I know what you mean. Had it been my boyfriend, I probably would have gone all KillBill on them.
Agreed! If I walked in on my boyfriend like that, I definitely would have MOA’d very quickly. He would have moved on as well–and exactly where he moved on to would depend on how he’d been keeping up with his religious obligations.
Seriously! Girlfriend best be burning his shit on his front lawn. That’s really the only proportionate response in this situation.
I think I would’ve calmly gone to the kitchen, got a bucket full of ice water and doused the loser.
If this had happened to me, all hell would’ve broken loose. First of all, buckets of cold water to awaken the bastards, then it would be ON. And I don’t just blame the man here. The other woman knew exactly what she was doing, and I doubt she was in the dark about him having a girlfriend.
I’d never be able to trust my boyfriend again after something like that. It would be over. It would hurt, but it would be over.
MOA! The previous communication makes it more than a one-night stand, and the fact that it happened when your boyfriend knew that you were going to be out of town shows that it was premeditated. On top of that, your boyfriend does not even have enough respect for you to tell you what really happened…
I know it really hurts to imagine a life without him (I was in a three-year relationship with someone who cheated on me, and I faced a similar dilemma) and, no lie, things are going to be really difficult in the short run. But if you can stick it out, you’ll be a stronger person and will eventually be open to a more mature and honest relationship…
Yeah I agree alot with your second paragraph. Every single one of us (ok most of us) have gone through some kind of break-up with a person who, prior to the breakup, we couldn’t imagine life without.
It sucks to have your heart broken and you will be miserable for a couple months but I promise you will end up happier in the long run. Your next relationship will be better than this one, because of what you’ll learn from this experience. I know it seems like the end of the world now, but one day you’ll look back and wonder how you could ever have been willing to stay with him after he did such terrible things to you. Sometimes you just have to take that leap.
Why didn’t he keep his distance after he found out that she was interested in him (after he told her about you, and she still pursued)?! Because that’s what any normal, respectful man would do.
If he did this on the morning that you were coming home, what did he do for the rest of the time you were with your mother? How long were you gone? How many times did he see her?
What did you do when you saw her in bed? Why did he have to call her? I feel like that situation should have been rectified right then & there, before stories could be made. And then, why wouldn’t he call her in front of you?
“He couldn’t finish” … is that supposed to make you feel better? “Well, at least she’s not pregnant…” ?!
Who cares if he’s redecorating? So he can wash all the stank off the house from when you were gone? So he has another excuse for you not to go to the house? Renovating is one thing, but changing the wall color or buying new slip covers isn’t an uninhabitable situation.
No, no, no. This is ridiculous. I’m sorry that you’re going to be hurt if you break up with him, but you’re already hurt. He’s definitely an idiot. Three years together and that’s what he does when you’re out of town? And you can’t even stand to be in that house – which leaves him alone time in the house for … hmmm.
No. Please kick him to the curb. He’s worthless, and you deserve so much better than that.
PS: Did you go on the cruise with him? I hope you took a friend instead.
I think the “He couldn’t finish” could partially be her way of letting Wendy know that “he doesn’t love her like he loves me.. he felt bad, and he ultimately couldn’t finish.”
In fact, given the scenario here, it wouldn’t be a far-fetched idea to assume the boyfriend gave that to her as an excuse.
“No, no! I love YOU, not her.. I couldn’t even finish!”
Agreed that he’s trying to tell her he couldn’t quite ‘go through with it’ if you will. Which is total bull. The dude clearly just had a case of beer dick.
Or he just lied.
Actually I think it’s worse, because she wasn’t even out of town. She was just staying at her own place while her mother was visiting. I wish her mother would have walked in on them with her, and may she could have talked some sense in to her!
Hahahah – “gymbo” – Nice touch, Wendy!
Your opportunity to get “the truth” was when you had them both suprised and naked in his bed. Now they’ve talked (and likely more than once), and anything either of them says about it is suspect. The fact that he wouldn’t let you be there when he called her seems to indicate that he’s either hiding something or more concerned about her feelings than yours.
I’m sure you want him to do/say something that is going to make you stop hurting and forget what he did and what you saw, but there’s nothing that is going to “magically” do that. I’m not sure why he’s moving in with you now, other than the fact that you might think you can keep an eye on him better this way. But, you know that it won’t keep him from cheating if he wants to do that. I think it’s better that you stay in your own places and figure out if you can trust and forgive him, because unless you can, this relationship is not salvageable. Maybe it’s not worth it, but only you can determine that; however, in your current state of mind, you’re likely too devastated to be able to think clearly. That’s why I think you need some time apart so you can process how you truly feel about him.
You really nailed it. Regarding your first paragraph, I’m not normally a gambling woman, but I’d put $50 down that if the LW called the Gymbo, she’d hear one of two things about the “backstory” where she met him and he told her about the LW:
1. She never heard anything about the LW. Didn’t even know the LW existed until her rude awakening.
2. She heard that the LW was a big bitch and they were breaking up. Sob story, poor me, wanna get drunk and come over?
OMG, yes! My ex told his girlfriend we hadn’t slept together in a year. We hadn’t even been married for a year at that point.
Not calling her in front of you is highly indicative that he is hiding something. Phone conversations leading up to the night means he pre-meditated it. You deserve and should command more respect than this. Find a guy more worth your time….he is not a unique and special snow flake.
Yeah my guess is that he really did remember what happend that night, and is just using that as an excuse. That way if he did call her in front of the LW he would have been caught red handed with that lie aswell.
My guess is he is dating the other woman too. Conveniently his place is getting “redecorated” – I’m suspicious that the gym chick happens to be a home decorator…
I got the impression he was redecorating to make the place seem as different as possible from the one she walked into that day.
Yep…that was the impression he gave her….but I don’t think anything should be taken at face value here. I’ll admit I MAY be reading too much into that, however, the home decorator comment was a joke alluding to the fact it is a perfect alibi to continue seeing this chick. It’s hilarious to me that he needs to move in with the lw to “redecorate”..unless she meant renovate.
Every body does things when drunk that we wouldn’t do sober but he did the deed twice with malice of forethought. Obviously he’s going to do it again and again. Letting him live at your place is sanctioning his selfishness. There are better men in the world. Go find one that values an exclusive relationship with you.
I suspect you meant “malice aforethought.”
I agree fast eddie. History of behavior has to start somewhere. If I’d left my jerk of an ex the very first time he got drunk and called me names, instead of saying, “This hasn’t happened before, I’ll just make sure it doesn’t happen again”, there wouldn’t have been a precedent. I couldn’t have said to myself (or have him say to me), “I put up with such-and-such, how is this worse than that?” the next time it happened, or when he hooked up with other girls over the internet, didn’t come home at night, etc. Her BF is manipulative. I could write a novel hear outlining all the red flags her letter had from my point of view.
I strongly encourage the LW to cut off contact from her BF. What worked for me was to tell myself that it was a “temporary” separation in order to get myself to do it, but once I broke off all contact, oh my goodness, it was as if the sun had come out from behind the clouds. This man only loves himself; LW you can find someone who cares about you as much as they care about themselves.
Here, not hear, geez
Sorry haven’t read the rest yet but Wendy, THIS was perfect:
“Um. Okay. So … wow, where to start?”
Exactly my thoughts as I clicked to read your response.
Holly cr*p…. I can’t believe you were still writing after ‘I came home and found him in our bed, passed out with a naked woman’. I would think that once you put that on paper and saw how ridiculous and crazy and wrong that is, you would have your answer.
I will try to not be too mean. Basically, your choice is between hurting now and moving on, or pretending to be fine (while fuming like hell inside) and getting a lot more hurt later, when you find them in your bed (and it WILL happen).
Your BF didn’t just cheat on you. He IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. And I am sure that it is still going on. He didn’t call her in front of you because then he would have to lie to her and pretend that he doesn’t remember what happened that night. He is more concerned about not hurting her feelings then he is about you. The only thing being drunk did for him, was to either forget that you were coming that morning, or passing out and falling asleep before he could get her to leave.
I say call her. At this point the last thing you should worry about is betraying his trust. She will either lie and back him up, and that will make you feel a bit better until the next time he f**ks (I use this word on purpose to make a point here) her, or she will tell you the typical story of how he said that your relationship was in trouble, and how he was staying with you to avoid hurting your feelings.
But, seriously, read your letter again and pretend that this is your best friend writing. Consider these three years a learning experience. Please, please, please do not let him move in with you and do not give him a reason to think that he can get away with that kind of behavior. Stop wasting another second of your life on this alcoholic cheater.
This is probably going to be one of the toughest things you are going to have to do, but LW, you need to MOA. You HAVE to. This is vital, not only for your mental and emotional health, but also for the future you DESERVE to have.
I’ve mentioned this before when commenting on another letter. My last ex was invovled in an “emotional affair.” Up until the end, he continued to claim that he never did anything with her, but I couldn’t believe him. The trust was completely gone and what followed was psycho-stalker behavior. I tried monitoring his every move, controlling who he saw and just hovering over him more than I should have. That won’t bring the trust back into the relationship. My trust was broken, not his, so why should I have done all the work?
If you are truly interested in working on this relationship, you STILL will need to leave him, but you need to see where his head is at. See how he tries to gain your trust (having secret phone conversations isn’t a good first step…). He has a lot of work to do! You also may have to look into couple’s therapy to see if there is a better way for the trust to be repaired in the relationship.
What I want to stress here is that you will need to take some time away from him, assess your feelings about this guy and this relationship, and communicate to him what the next few months are going to look like. Irrespective of whether you decide to stay or go, you definitely need to start by taking some time to focus on you.
I’m curious what the LW expected to hear. What part of that story should make us think anything other than MOA?
He slept with another woman. In the place you supposedly share with him. In your shared bed, even. Without a condom. This shows no respect for your relationship, your feelings, or your health. Had you not caught him, its likely he wouldn’t have told you and then you would have been vulnerable to catching all kinds of STDs.
Aside from these huge HUGE issues are the less massive ones:
You appear to be lying to your mother about the living situation.
“He has a drinking problem,” but was still out there getting drunk and doing things he shouldn’t be doing.
His solution is not to never drink again but to only drink when you’re around. Are you his babysitter?
He’s moving into your place because he’s remodeling his own? I will bet that he would dump you anyways, when the remodel is over and he doesn’t need you anymore.
You want to believe he’s remorseful, and maybe he is (remorseful that he got caught), but I would argue that it doesn’t matter. His complete disregard for you, especially your physical health, is inexcusable.
You are lucky that despite being his “live-in girlfriend” you have a home to go to. Its time to dump the jerk and head back home. Do whats right and safe for you.
Thank you for writing what I was going to write! Because ugh… I barely have the energy to do it. This letter writer….
She’s not going to listen. There’s not one redeeming quality for her boyfriend in that letter. This situation isn’t ambiguous at all. He cheated on her in one of the worst ways. Premeditated, with no real remorse, right under your nose. Blatantly disrespectful.
LW, your boyfriend is disgusting. Drop him. If you don’t drop him this time, do it next time you catch him with another woman.
I didn’t even catch that part of the letter, that she was staying at her place while her mother was in town!
And they’ve been together for three years and the boyfriend didn’t meet up with the mom once?
Oooh, I retract my advice above.
How could you even consider staying with him after seeing for yourself his betrayal? Where do you go from here? How about to the clinic to get tested for every STD possible? There’s something not adding up with his story, and how could you trust him to tell you that what happened was a one-time thing. PLEASE get yourself tested as a precaution. Once you get those results, PLEASE MOA!
This was not some drunken night screw up where he met some random chick at a bar and brought her home (which would be bad enough on it’s own). The fact is he knew this girl was interested, they talked regularly on the phone while he was perfectly sober, and then after all that they hooked up, without a condom, when your back was turned. I really really hope you have not slept with him after this. Please remember that condoms don’t just prevent pregnancy, they protect against STDs and you have no idea what kind of STDs this woman could have passed to your boyfriend. Please MOA LW. No guy is worth what he did to you. It doesn’t matter that he says he sorry, he set this up to happen by giving this girl his number and talking to her on a regular basis. It doesn’t matter that he’s moved in to your place, he can still just as easily hook up some place else. This guy does not deserve your trust, if you still trust him after this happened you need to take a really good look at yourself and find some self-respect. You deserve so much better than this.
I’m not worried about as much about STDs this woman gave the BF; I’m worried about what STDs the OTHER WOMEN may have given him – you know, the ones he boinked BEFORE he got caught with this one.
I’m going to get metaphorical here: normally I don’t believe in taking the pots. But if there was ever a situation to do it, this would be it! TAKE THE FUCKING POTS.
And the Louboutins and the Ipad?
The iPad was clutch. That would be the first thing I took. But I’m not a shoe girl anyway.
Taking those just goes without saying.
Don’t forget the gift card. 🙂
That made me lol
Ditto!
Took me a minute to get it (man, I’m slow today), but very nice
YES.
LW, you wrote to Wendy too soon. First, no question about it, kick him out and never speak to him again. As hard as it may be, stick to that for months and months and months while he does everything in his power to try to win you back. At that point, continue to ignore him and continue your life without him. One day in the future, he will try to win your heart again. At this point he will have taken significant steps to prove to you that he has turned his life around and is a better person, closer to the person you deserve. Assuming all of these things have happened and assuming you’re still available and interested in giving him another shot, then it will be time to write Wendy, and we can all discuss if it’s a good idea to take him back or not. But right now? Please, no question about it. He can go eat a bag of dicks.
LOL perfectly said Addie Pray! I am embarrassed to admit I giggled like a high schooler at my desk at work at the “eat a bag of dicks” comment/
Run, don’t walk, to your Doctor and get checked for STDs. Present him with the bill.
Then kick him out, change your locks and block his phone number and Email.
Really, you would consider staying with a man who set up a date with another woman – b’c what do you think the gym meetings and phone calls led up to? Had unprotected sex, and who has a drinking problem?
Oh, and get thee to a therapist and figure out why you think you deserve this type of treatment.
Just, Wow, oh wow.
{shaking head in wonder}
“Run, don’t walk, to your Doctor and get checked for STDs”
Driving is still probably faster. I would drive.
If you were a spacegirl, you could fly. THAT would be fastest.
Oh what? Just because she’s a spacegirl she would have some crazy fucking jetpack that she would fly around in? This is the kind of racist bullshit that drives me crazy.
You’re right, I generally assumed that all space girls and boys have jetpacks when some use hoover craft and others use their two feet. damn, you got me
Yeah I mean I dont have a jetpack either. But I do have a rocketship!
Wonder if anyone is able to go back in time so the LW can redo her response to seeing her bf in bed with another women.. then she could get it right and go apesh*t
Ok, its more of a car. But I can dream.
Hey, spaceboy761, is SpaceySteph your wife? Surely your wife reads DW too. Which commenter is she? Spill it.
Spacewife is a firm devotee of the The Knot/Bump/Nest complex and does not post here.
Seconded. SpaceyBoyfriend only uses the internet to buy Woot!s or find ancient VW Beetle parts. He is not cool enough for DW.
LMAO.
ugh, your “boyfriend” is a liar, an idiot and a cheater! i’m sure this has happened before. why is it always the other woman’s fault? at what point was he too drunk to know what was going on? when he flirted with the girl at the gym? made plans for her to come over? drank with her? initiated sex? had sex with her? what is there to think about? also didn’t use a condom! drunk or not, no excuse! i know what i would do. god, no wonder there is so many jerks out there when women let men do crap like this and then don’t dump their ass! (yes i am in a bad mood right now, but still!) ugh!
It’s like god gave you a neon sign that is flashing “MOA” and you’re not looking at it.
LW, I can’t possibly imagine how you are letting this guy get away with this.
You didn’t mention your reaction to walking in on that, but mine would have either been insane crazy woman screaming and yelling, or so freaked the fuck out, I’d be speechless and walked out.
The fact that you have even spoken to him, let alone allowed him to move in with you is ridiculous. How can you let this guy do this to you?
The simple fact he gave her his number is sketchy enough, but he then went on to talk here every few days? Did he ever mention this girl to you before you caught them? He did these things before getting “really drunk” and fucking her. What else were they doing while you were not there? The fact that he *might* have been drunk that one night, doesn’t mean they weren’t screwing all over the place the days before that. (And who’s to say he hasn’t done this other times with other women??)
Get away from this creep before you get hurt again. Don’t let him fool you, his complete disregard for your feelings before this episode is enough to kick his ass to the curb. Please, please spare yourself the regret of not leaving this guy sooner.
Clearly, there was a lot going on before this happened that shouldn’t have gone on. I don’t think I’d necessarily consider it to be unforgivable (what happened before that night) – just something that clearly needed to stop. It might indeed be unforgivable, but perhaps not. It depends on his intent.
What happened that night, and what you stumbled onto, LW, was unforgiveable because it was so callous in addition to all the other reasons. However, I want to put something out there for consideration: was this something that seemed out of character for him? Did he often get passed-out-does-stupid-things drunk? I understand he apparently has a drinking problem, but that can mean many different things. I ask because I am wondering if there is a chance he was drugged.
No, men don’t need to be drugged to cheat, and yes, it’s an easy go-to excuse and no, I hope you don’t cling to it for false reasons, LW, but… if this really did seem out of character for him, then I wanted to put it out as a possibility. Knowing you were coming home, knowing you were about to go on a cruise… it seems like an act of incredible idiocy to get caught like that.
I am not defending anything he did, and I am most definitely not defending the steps leading up to and including him meeting her for drinks. However, if this woman really wanted him, and if she was aware that he had drinking issues, and if this behavior seemed off for him (as in truly out of character), then I wanted to suggest that his actions after meeting her for drinks might not have been under his control.
Unfortunately, it is too late for now to test for the drugs, and so of course he’ll latch onto it as an excuse if you bring it up. I absolutely do not want to give you a false reasont to forgive him. However, I’ve known friends who were drugged, and they didn’t always realize they were drugged, and it was very atypical behavior after drinking that gave it away.
I think it’s an unlikely explanation, and – again – it doesn’t excuse any behavior up and including meeting her for drinks even if it’s valid. But I wanted to throw it out there if and only if this seemed to be very unusual behavior.
The woman still being there with him and the fact he knew you were on your way does strongly suggest he was incapacitated in some way. If he truly was unable to fathom his actions, the actual acts of that night were not really the part that was cheating – the lead-up to it and the getting drunk were. This is true regardless of whether he was also drugged.
I still think it’s a bad scene, and not one that will likely work out well for you. However, I did want to throw out the possibility that he was taken advantage of. Had the genders in this story been reversed, I suspect others would have already suggested this.
I also wanted to point out that the fact he can’t remember the night before is telling. If this is not unusual for him, then, fine, he’s got terrible drinking issues. If it is unusual, though, it’s stingily indicative of being drugged.
Regardless, if he actually can’t remember what happened, then, LW, you’re already getting her version of the story. It might not be complete – or it might include things that are completely false.
There are too many possibilities to consider that we, as strangers, cannot possibly decide what happened. But if this woman wanted to rip him away from you, then getting him blackout-drunk, possibly drugging him, then getting discovered naked in bed with him would tend to do that. Still doesn’t forgive what happened before, but if she had ulterior motives, his involvement might be less than other readers suspect.
Or he might have planeed the whole thing, and it’s happened before, and it’ll happen again, and that other woman was innocent in all this.
But I wouldn’t put a lot of faith into a story that he had to get from her because he couldn’t remember anything.
That should read “strongly indicative”. iPad + bouncy train = typing issues.
Lets say this dude was drugged by this woman and raped. Not really a likely possibility, but let’s play devil’s advocate here. He still exchanged his number with this girl completely sober days earlier and talked with her repeadetly. He then went out drinking with her without telling his girlfriend (I am not saying my boyfriend isn’t allowed to have female friends and go out with them, but if he met someone new and snuck around to hang out with her, I would at least have some questions). Finally rather than being open and transparent in order to fix things, he refuses to allow his girlfriend to call this girl.
All of this behavior is worth a pretty serious examination of the relationship, even if he was “drugged and raped” (which come on, he wasn’t).
First, as I said and repeated, I’m in complete agreement about his behavior prior to that night.
Second, the “which come on, he wasn’t” is, to me, too quick to judgement. If you’re the LW, and you know he passes out often, then I completely agree it’s not what happened. However, if in the three years she’s known him, he’s never been black-out drunk, then I do strongly believe there’s more to it. Being caught with her naked in the bed the morning he knew the LW was coming home is an act of supreme idiocy. If he’s prone to acts of supreme idiocy, then, fine, he’s an idiot. Otherwise, this is not typical behavior.
Third, everything indicates that, drugged or not, he was extremely wasted that night. Therefore, he’s at best responsible for getting wasted but not for what followed because he would not have been able to consent to sex. You can’t have that standard for women and throw it out when men are involved.
So… drugged or not, I still say the LW needs to base her decision on the events prior to that night, not on what happened after the two of them got back to his place.
I have no problem whatsoever with her dumping his ass solely based on what preceded that night. None. I think it’d be completely justified. But I think she needs to base her decision on those events and on how he acted once whatever was in his system – even if it was just alcohol – wore off.
Wendy pays me a lot of money* to be the Devil’s Advocate here. Sometimes I do it just for that reason. Other times it’s because I legitimately think the other party should be defended. Here, I’m split. I think he might need a defense, but I don’t know enough to know.
* Ha! As if.
Well, maybe I am making an assumption here, but the LW writer already said he has a drinking problem, so I would assume that getting trashed on a regular basis IS normal behavior.
Hey, I agree with you about it being the likely possibility.
If the LW writes in and says “yeah, he gets drunk a lot and often doesn’t remember things” then fine.
However, since none of us knows the guy, it’s a bit much to make assumptions about what is or is not normal behavior for him.
All right, I can see we are mostly on the same side, but I need a distraction from work so I am going to respond to this anyways.
My argument that the idea of him being drugged can be dismissed is because she said he has a regular drinking problem. Some statements in our language are loaded with meaning. “Drinking problem” is one of these. When I hear someone has a drinking problem, it immediately connotates that this person drinks in excess, on a regular basis, and they experience the side affects of such behavior, such as blacking out. I don’t need someone to say “He has a drinking problem; he blacks out and can’t remember stuff” because collectively everybody has agreed that that’s already a given, they don’t need to qualify it and would be unnecessary to do so. If that’s not the case for a particular individual, then she would have called that out and said something like “He has a drinking problem and usually what happens is he sits in a corner and sings 17th century limericks (as an example), so its weird he can’t remember anything” because that goes against the accepted norm of what drinking problem usually entails and needs additional explanation. In that case, I would be more open the idea of him being drugged, or of something fishy happening.
But she didn’t, so I am going with the standard image of what a drinking problem entails, and I feel comfortable rejecting the idea of him being drugged.
Sure there is a SLIGHT chance I am wrong, but I feel comfortable enough to reject it. There could be a slight chance that he was drunk and some alien hijacked his body and forced him to do what he did, but the evidence just doesn’t support it. I don’t think it does for the drug scenario either.
“He has a drinking problem and usually what happens is he sits in a corner and sings 17th century limericks (as an example), so its weird he can’t remember anything”
Hahah! I wanna be friends with someone with THAT kind of drinking problem!
Whether we’re talking about men or women, I think you have a lower threshold than a lot of people as to what is too drunk to consent to sex. I am not talking about legal definitions here, to be clear. But I consider too drunk to consent to be completely incoherent, unable to understand what is happening, or unable to express oneself clearly enough to say yes or no. I don’t think someone who was an active participant the night before can say that they were too drunk to consent the night before. That’s a bad decision due to impaired judgment, but its still a decision that was made. If my boyfriend was wasted and came over and punched me in the face, I would not say that it didn’t count because he was too drunk to consent to punching me. You still have a responsibility for your actions that you willingly commit when you’re drunk, and I don’t think having sex with someone should be any different than any other bad decision you have to own up to the next morning.
Now, if he had been passed out drunk and she forced herself on him and he was so drunk he was unable to articulate “no” or push her off of him, then I would have a different opinion. That is what I consider to be too drunk to consent, for both men and women.
The infidelity happened before they slept together. Whether he was drugged or not is inconsequential.
“The infidelity happened before they slept together.”
You don’t know that. You can strongly suspect it, but you don’t know it.
Getting a phone number and calling someone is not necessarily being unfaithful. Granted, it probably is, but it’s not always.
There seems to be a general consensus that, when a letter is written, someone needs to hang, and sometimes we sentence the LW and usually it’s the person the LW writes about, but someone always needs to be tossed into the pit.
I agree that’s likely usually the proper response. But I disagree that we typically know enough from a few paragraphs from a stranger to properly judge how they should alter their lives. Probably, the LW should dump his ass. I’d say that it’s far more likely that she should than that she shouldn’t. If I knew 20 people this happened to, probably 18-19 should MOA. But the 1 or 2 who shouldn’t might need to realize that there are alternatives, both to the way the situation should be seen and, as Dave Jay so eloquently put it, to the way they can act to mend the situation should they chose to do so.
“I disagree that we typically know enough from a few paragraphs from a stranger to properly judge how they should alter their lives.”
Then why an advice column?
“Then why an advice column?”
To get advice.
However, a lot of this isn’t advice. We jump to a conclusion that is then considered unassailable fact and used to say terrible things about both the LW and the person about whom the LW is writing. We do not know the details. We never do on these letters. We do not know the facts of the matter enough to be sure, but most of these comments seem to assume that, yup, we’re positive we know the situation.
We forget that we are only guessing. We forget that there is someone in pain who wrote in who reads these comments. We forget that we’re commenting about someone that writer cares about. So we all pile onto whomever we decide the “bad guy” is, and no contrary opinion is tolerated.
Why? Because so many people just absolutely know the truth that they won’t even concede the possibility of alternate explanations.
I don’t mind getting thumbed down, but it does somewhat irk me to get thumbed down seemingly just because I offered an explanation that meant the bad guy might not be quite as bad. Why did I say something so patently ridiculous? Well, because I’ve had friends who were drugged. So I offered it as a possibility because it would explain some of the situation. Go figure.
However, it really does bother me that comments are written which are so mean to those who write in and about those the writers care about. Calling the LW pathetic and an idiot is not “advice.” Saying she’s lying to her mother is not “advice.” And so on.
Let’s try to remember that these comments actually are towards real people on the other side.
I’m gonna go with 99% sure he wasn’t drugged. I think its waaaaaay more likely that he is saying he doesn’t remember any of it because people use that as a cop-out when they don’t want to have to explain their actions.
Well, then, you’re much better at pulling information out of a letter about compete strangers than I am.
If this is very atypical of him – and only the LW can answer that – then I think it becomes much more likely. Either drugged or given stronger than expected drinks. I’m not saying it’s definite, but it’s absolutely a decent possibility if he doesn’t tend to black out.
Seriously, if his intent were to cheat on her,and if he knew the other woman wanted him, what possible motivation would he have to get that drunk beforehand??
I think the idea that the girl took him out and drugged him is ridiculously far-fetched. If you find your boyfriend in bed with another woman and think, “well maybe she drugged and raped him” when he hasn’t even offered that up as a possibility, you’re really grasping at straws.
Furthermore, we have no clue how drunk the guy was, really, or if he really can’t remember anything, or if the details are just hazy and its easier for him to just claim no recollection. But even if he really was that drunk, it wasn’t necessarily planned. All the times in my life that I’ve gotten tanked, I didn’t have any “motivation”, per say. I was just out having a good time and didn’t monitor it the way I should have. Its easy for three drinks to turn into four to turn into ‘how many drinks have I had?’ to turn into ‘what did I do last night?’. And even if his motivation is questionable, he made it pretty clear that he wanted her if he was calling her discretely and then met her for drinks (without telling his girlfriend) while his girlfriend was away. What would her motivation be for drugging him?
Hey… it happened all the time on Passions.
I think that only applies if the other woman was either an actual witch or the LW’s evil twin.
Unbeknowst to itself, Passions was the best comedy on television for 7 years. Very few shows got more laughs out of me than Passions. I have a gut feeling that the writers were uber-talented snarky assholes that knew exactly what they were doing when they wrote that beautiful crap.
Given the high level of denial the LW seems to present, I would think that she would have JUMPED on any chance to make excuses for him. And given the high level of sleazeballiness that the bf seems to possess, I imagine that he would have been able to manipulate the LW into buying any number of far-fetched excused (Honey, honestly…she came over to give my goldfish a swedish massage and then, OOPS!…she fell right onto my dick!).
I think if the “drugged” story were even REMOTELY plausible, either the LW or the bf would have already incorporated it into this chaos somehow.
(Long-time reader, first-time poster! w00t!)
Where did you pull the information that he went out to get drinks? Sounds to me like he invited this women over to his place for some drinks, and alone time with her. It sounds like he had this whole night planned out, with all of the phone conversations before this, and he finally got his chance to get this girl to come over and loosen up with him, because his GF was finally out of the house for a couple of days.
“then I wanted to suggest that his actions after meeting her for drinks might not have been under his control.”
So how do you propose he got himself to the bar, met up with her, took her back to his apt, & banged her (or “turbobanged”)??
Maybe the girl stalked him, then bludgeoned him, dragged him back to HIS appt. & banged him while he was unconcious… Yupp, that sounds about right.
The last paragraph of the LW’s letter is the most pathetic thing I have ever read.
I was waiting for you to chime in…
All I can think about is what the hell kind of relationships has the LW had in the past to consider this one indispensable? This guy is an alcoholic who sees no issues with having an unprotected sofa-to-bed turbobang with some random chick he met at the gym. Way to pick a winner.
The “I don’t want to betray his trust” line is too sad to be funny and too funny to be sad.
You’re aboslutely right. Very very sad…
I wonder if she thinks all this is ok because “he didn’t finish.”
P.S. Turbobang= EPIC
Ah, the turbobang. We can debate whether it’s OK or not to bang on the first date. A turbobang occurs when you manage to bang BEFORE the first date even happens.
So what kind of douche would this guy be? Or would he be a different sort of jerk?
‘Douche’ would be giving this guy too much credit. He’s a straight-up asshole. A manipulative piggish asshole at that.
OK – this is what I got then for your classifications in the Family>Asshole
*Family: Asshole or Rectus (definition: a stupid, incompetent, or detestable person)
**Genus: Porcus rectus(definition: an unpleasant or obnoxious person/asshole)
***Species: ^Lechera porcus rectus (definition: a hanger-on who seeks advantage or gain through crudely casting aside the feelings of another)
^Manipulatorus porcus rectus (definition: a manipulative piggish asshole)
Well done 🙂
“manipulative piggish asshole”
That MUST be added to the list.
He has a drinking problem, cheated on you in your bed the night before you were supposed to go on vacation together, and you’re worrid about betraying his trust?
Dump him, and then get thee to therapy. You need it. From the sounds of your letter, you possess little sense of self confidence or self worth. No one should treat you like this.
You’ll never know if your boyfriend is being 100% honest about all the details. The fact that he left the room to talk to her suggests that he needed a buffer zone (so he could tell you the less hurtful version of the tale), but again, we have no way of knowing. So basically, what you know is that either his version of events is the truth is what happened, or something worse happened.
So lets look at the Best Possible Scenario: your boyfriend met a girl at the gym who expressed her interest in him. He talked to her secretly on the phone every few days. When you left for vacation, he met up with her, drank a lot, and they had sex without a condom in various parts of the house and fell asleep together. Then, he refused to call her in front of you, and you felt that he told you an account of what happened that might not be completely true.
As that’s the best scenario, ask yourself, can you forgive that? If you can, I really don’t think you wouldn’t forgive him if its turns out that he came or that were doing it the whole time you were gone or that by “talking on the phone” he means sending sexy texts and pics of his peen. You know that what he did was a serious betrayal. You know it was fucked up. I think you’re just concentrating on the minor details because its hard for process the whole. You didn’t expect this to happen or want this to happen, so you’re hanging out to the fact that he didn’t really care about her or was really drunk to make it okay.
God, so many typos.
LW, your boyfriend has another girlfriend.
I agree, obviously not the first time they hooked up, or he wouldn’t be calling her on the sly, and he would be more inclined to pump and dump as they say, rather than letting her sleep over.
hahaha, pump and dump.
I also don’t get the “I want to believe him” comments because… what? I mean, there is not really any other way he can further betray your trust at this point unless he were to sleep with your mom or your best friend.
Also, love the “was he drunk when they exchanged numbers at the gym?” question. Seriously. Time to go. As Oprah would say, when someone shows you who they are BELIEVE them.
Good Lawd LW WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He cheated on you.
He’s using the “I don’t remember what happened card”
He has a drinking problem.. so the I’ll never drink if you’re not around is total BS!!!!!!!!!!
Oh and he cheated on you!!!!!!!!!!!!
Move on Move on Move on!! Please move on!
Alright…this guy won’t call this other girl in front of you? Yeah, this is certainly not the first time. Please read the psychopath test by Ron Jonson or…*quickie version*…take the online socialized psychopath test for your boyfriend (http://bob.bofh.org/~robm/misc/psycho.html)….I’m guessing this guy fits the bill. I’m only half serious here…
LW, I’m really sorry for what you’ve been put through, but you need to get yourself out. MOA, and I guarantee you will have a much happier life. Also, I’d say grab a friend and book another cruise! A nice vacation and a lot of mojitos couldn’t hurt in getting over this incredible jerk.
One way to make all this alright is to open your relationship. Or make it poly-amory (hope I spelled that right). Which means that you, LW, get to do the same things he does – as in, talk on the phone, go out drinking and have sex with other men (pass-out optional). You have to accept the fact that your boyfriend can’t be monogamous.
This doesn’t feel right, does it?
Another point in your letter – you’re afraid to betray his trust. Honey, it’s about time you reciprocate. Besides, what he did is so mean and cruel, all bets are off. You can do anything you want. You should let him see how much he hurt you. You could definitely call the girl while he’s there. Watch his facial expressions. Better yet, do it from his phone – the way the girl answers the phone will give you a lot of clues as to how things are between them. And if he won’t let you use his phone – how much shit are you willing to take from him? Draw the line somewhere!!!
The fact that he gave you so specific details – we did it on the couch, and then on the bed… That’s so cruel, and mean, and disrespectful and hurtful… He really didn’t have to do that. Even if you insisted. I think that his actions scream “I want out of this relationship, break up with me already. I’m a wuss and don’t have the courage to break up with you”.
LW, you have to understand that when he had sex with that girl, he didn’t think he would get caught. If you forgive him, you are, in fact reinforcing his behavior, and he’ll be more careful next time he cheats. Because he will cheat again.
Good luck!
If she takes him back he’s just learning what she requires to keep the relationship going while he cheats.
It’s like he’s a juggler juggling her and the affair. Whoops, he just dropped her. Next time he’ll learn to be a better juggler. After while he’ll get more confidant and then he’ll be juggling her and multiple affairs and each time he drops her he’ll just learn to be a better juggler.
Until she quits the game, but not before.
Polyamory is NOT the same thing as screwing around with whoever you want! Her getting to sleep with other people would not make it “all right”, it would just add more drama to an already ridiculous situation. If he can’t respect boundaries or her feelings in a monogamous relationship, there’s no way he could in a polyamorous one.
You’re not the only one that has been in this situation, and you’re not the only one that has tried to find reason after reason to forgive the guy and stay. My EX cheated on me numerous times with his child’s mother. He would tell me he had to take his daughter home, and would stay gone for hours at a time. He would make up some lame story about how he had to go get gas, but it doesn’t take hours to get gas. That went on for awhile, but I was in denial. Then he started spending time with my bestfriend, without me. I tricked his cousin into telling me they were sleeping together.. by asking how long they’d been dating, and she was like, “who told you?” Not only did I have an untrustworthy boyfriend, I couldnt trust my BESTFRIEND either. It was… just a horrible feeling. Anyway, they didnt last long, and he came crawling back, but I had the satisfaction of telling him we were done. Finished.
My point is, kick his ass to the curb the first time, find satisfaction when he comes crawling back, and then move on! He’s stringing you along like you’re his puppet. If you let him get away with this, he WILL DO IT AGAIN!
Some friend she turned out to be! Hope you dumped her ass too.
This guy met a girl at the gym that was into him, took down her number and called her several times. He did not just get drunk and fall on top of her. He PLANNED to get drunk and fall on top of her.
On top of that you say he has a drinking problem and now he won’t drink without you? That is not a solution to a drinking problem!! AA, soul searching and abstinence are the solution to a drinking problem.
Do yourself a favor – hell, do him a favor and DUMP him. This guy needs to learn that there are consequences for his actions and that his drinking is not a convenient excuse, its a contributing factor to a problem that HE needs to take responsibility for.
Your bf can’t blame this on being drunk. My bf getting a girl’s number and calling her every few days would be enough for me to seriously consider our relationship. You bf was already thinking about cheating on you with this woman before it actually happened. And why was he getting drunk with her in the first place. I’m sort but your relationship is over, move on!!!
At first when I was reading this, I thought, “Okay, he doesn’t remember anything, maybe it really was a one night stand..” But then I read on when LW wrote he met her at the gym and exchanged numbers! Him exchanging numbers with her was most likely done sober, since I have never heard of anyone going to the gym drunkenly out of their mind. AND he admittedly says he kept in contact with her when LW was not around, plus the banging everywhere in his damn apartment and let’s just add on that she caught the damn woman in his bed..NAKED. I don’t even know how she can possibly look at the guy without getting disgusted.
I get how women will take their s/o back after cheating, and some women are guilty of doing it (including myself). Hey, sometimes it works out, most of the time it doesn’t. When I found out my ex cheated on me I never caught him, so I just never really tried to picture him having sex with another woman..I tried to block that picture out of my head forever just to keep me sane. Now, on the other hand catching your s/o in the bed…with a naked woman. I don’t even think I can bear just seeing that picture for myself. Now, I’m not saying that it’s okay to go back with your ex because he cheated and you never saw it happen. All I am saying is it is much WORSE to catch him red handed….to see it for yourself.
Sweetheart, we can all sit around and give you all kinds of advice, but I think you know what’s best. Just move on. Move on unless you truly think you can never look back at this indiscretion. And doing that is not going to be an overnight thing, maybe not even a month! It could take you years to get over that mental picture of your boyfriend naked with another woman. If you think you can eventually get past that and the love you two have for each other can overcome all obstacles including this one, then work it out . If not, and you still go back to him…it’s going to be a waste of time. That waste of time could of been well better spent getting over the guy.
DTMFA DTMFA DTMFA!!
My thoughts exactly!! This situation is too terrible to say MOA! (I LOVE Dan Savage btw!)
I’m going to sympathize with you here and walk the thinnest of lines:
IF you really cannot imagine living without him AND YOU TRULY BELIEVE that he just got in over his head and suffered a huge lapse in judgement, then here is what you have to do. (FYI: It isn’t going to be easy for either of you and may take half a year or more.)
First… you have to break up with him… and I mean REALLY break up. Don’t accept his phone calls and force him to get creative if he wants to contact you. You’ll be sifting through a lot of desperate voice messages and want to give in. Don’t.
Second… maintain yourself. Revel in the few perks of being single (i.e. controlling the TV remote and eating the whole bag of popcorn). Read Shania Twain’s new book, “From this Moment On”.
Third… PASSIVELY keep tabs on him, either through his friends or family. Don’t act interested, just normal “human concern for an old friend” to make sure he’s not standing on a high ledge somewhere with a rope around his neck. If he has MOA with another woman, it’s over and you’re done. If he is maintaining his normal lifestyle, you need to wait longer (if you can). However, if you hear he has literally re-invented himself, is actively working to conquer his demons, working a new job, and everyone else says “he’s different”, then… go to the final step.
Finally… Now is the time to contact him. Suggest a simple date (lunch in a public place). If it feels like you’re sitting with a new person, (and someone you’re still interested in) arrange another date a few days later. No overnights, no “relations”, and don’t even kiss him back until the 3rd date. You’re starting over with a new person… don’t revert back to old patterns or you end up right back where you started. If he has truly changed, he should be looking to make a much bigger commitment to you than just “living together”.
I wish you the best on the difficult journey ahead.
I would honestly look at this as a blessing. A blessing that this is as far as it went and that you didn’t waste 3 years + one more day with this idiot. If you truly believe that this is the first time he’s cheated or that he won’t again, you’re fooling yourself.
I know it’s hard and it hurts, but seriously, this just might be the best thing to ever happen to you if it means you get to move on from someone like this.
He’s a cheating lying liar. Even if this is the first time he’s done it. He met her at the gym, but had sex with her drunk? Was he drunk at the gym?? No! Maybe they first met at the gym, but some subsequent date must have followed wherein much drinking and flirting took place. Like Wendy, I could not tell whether you live with this dude or not, but don’t move in/move out and move ON.
There are two common themes that recur in so many of these letters. The first is a feeling that being drunk fully or partially absolves one of bad behavior and that behavior when drunk is not a part of a person’s personality and character. Behavior when drunk really is a manifestation of personality. The dark side is let out. Not everyone has as dark a side as the drunks described in these letters. In this letter, the cheating clearly is a big part of LW’s bf’s personality. He spent days, probably weeks, leading up to this cheating. All the planning was while sober. The drinking is offered as a get out of jail free card, and apparently LW has accepted it as such. MOA, he’s already auditioning your replacement. It will be far better for your self-esteem to dump him rather than be dumped.
The other strand is the ‘but I love him’. You have to ask, ‘exactly what about him do you love?’ and ‘do you like him as well as loving him?’ From some letters the answer to the first question is clearly nebulous, while the answer to the second is clearly no. The driver seems to be a combination of inertia to stay with the familiar coupled with a fear of not finding someone better.
I agree. There are certainly better people out there for her…she just needs to be looking.
Yes, MOA. You’re overthinking this. No matter whether he has feelings for her or remembers hooking up or is or is not an idiot (I believe the answer is yes), all roads lead to: He slept with another woman. The fact that he didn’t have the sense to not be naked in bed with her when you came back doesn’t cloud this or make it better in any way. He may very well have a drinking problem. Still slept with someone else. And I assume that if they spoke on the phone several nights, that he wasn’t always drunk and at some point was in control of himself. So, definitely, definitely MOA.
If the LW was going to MOA, she would have just done it. It wouldn’t take a letter to DW to convince her to do so.
She’s going to stay, he’s going to cheat again, and they’re going to live happily ever after.
You’re probably right, with the correction that it will be unhappily ever after, at least by her. Ten years from now, she’ll have 3 kids, complain about being married to a cheating jerk, feeling trapped, but having to stay with him for the kids.
Anybody else get flashback of “Working Girl” with this letter?
Dump him. When he tries to seduce you back at your best friend’s wedding shower by asking you to slow dance to “lady in red” and then proposes to you, tell him…”maybe”.Then when he asks “Maybe? What the hell kind of an answer is that?” you say, “Want another answer, ask another girl.” BAM! Oh, and just so you know, that slut Dorine who’s crying at the shower is probably still having sex with your boyfriend. And who the hell cries at a bridal shower?
Go. Find your Harrison Ford. Let Alec Baldwin work on his boat and bone jersey whores. Is it weird that the only character name I can remember from that movie is the slut Dorine?
He wouldn’t call her in front of you and did it when you weren’t listening in – how much more of a lying sonofabitch does he need to be?
Honey – the only thing he “didn’t remember” that night was that you were going to be there the next morning. You are being played for a fool. Don’t be one. Go get yourself tested for STDs because I wouldn’t doubt that his “forgetfulness” of using a condom is pretty common. I wouldn’t doubt the whole thing was orchestrated because the other woman really is pregnant with his kid and he needed a “convincing” cover-story that you would “believe”. Don’t believe him, don’t believe her – believe your own two eyes and ears.
Leave him to his misery and hope that he gets the itchiest case of herpes known to man.
I’m already dying to hear the update on this!
Considering just how harsh everyone is being, I don’t expect her to send an update.
I have a feeling this may be the letter that receives the most comments. I have so many things to say to it, that I can’t even think straight.
Okay… Another woman who is so desperate for a man, she is willing to overlook anything it seems. Her blase’ attitude towards his drinking is astounding. “Yes, he has a drinking problem, but hey, it’s all good as he has promised to ONLY drink when I’m around!” …How wonderful for you. Hurry! Patch things up and pop out a couple of kids, fast! Yeah, go for it! This is as good as it gets!
Look, sadly, there isn’t much to this story. Your boyfriend is a drunk. Your boyfriend is a cheat. He is a cheat he uses the fact that he is a drunk to (lamely) justify that he is a cheat. This in itself was a cheat. Was he drunk when he met her at the gym? When they exchanged numbers? Was he drunk each and every time they talked? (Actually, who knows…maybe he was… He sounds like such a winner.)
The moral of the story is that it’s time to MOA. The fact that he timed this little escapade to happen ON THE VERY DAY you were supposed to leave for a romantic cruise is no accident… Far from it. That strikes me a VERY deliberate.
Stop being so desperate LW! Heck, it astounds me how much some of you will put up with. In this case, there are two needy and pathetic women involved as the OTHER woman isn’t exactly getting him at his very best… How romantic for her, I can see her having that SEX AND THE CITY chat with her girlfriends… “He’s so dreamy! A total lush, he barely could keep it up, we didn’t even finish! Then he passed out and his girlfriend showed up as that day they were supposed to sail to Cabo!” “Oh, Sheila! It’s so unfair! You get all the great guys!” “I know, right! I have a totally charmed life!!”
But yes, By all means you should contact this other woman to get her side of the story because OF COURSE it will totally exonerate your boyfriend from ANY wrong doing. It was all totally just this evil bitch and her insidious mechanizations that led your poor innocent man astray… Yeah, I totally buy what some other poster suggested…Yes, your BF simply had to have been drugged! Perhaps the CIA is even involved! Do you have an important job? Know any top secret national security data? Heck, she’s probably a member of Al-Queda and was using him to get to you… Remember! This man is your soulmate! He’s oh so wonderful! And — clearly — he’s best you can do! Stay with him at all costs! What’s a little raging alcohol problem but a speed bump on the road to pure romantic bliss? Go buy him thirty cases of booze and never leave his side again… Again, it’s all the fault of the other woman, that jezebel! How dare she do this to you and your poor innocent boyfriend! Hurry now! Get over to Bottle Barn stat so you can patch things up!!
I, for one, love your rants BGM, even if I told didn’t exactly tell her to “walk away and never look back.”
I have to say, I really don’t appreciate the woman-bashing tone of this comment. Specifically “Another woman who is so desperate for a man…” “It astounds me how much some of you will put up with…”
It seems like most of us feel very little sympathy for this letter writer because there’s seemingly no real reason to take this guy back, but she seems intent on doing just that. I get that. But that whole “Oh look, another stupid woman, what a surprise” subtext is, frankly, unwelcome. At least as far as I’m concerned.
But what do I know. I’m the stupid woman who told that other letter writer that she’s not a manipulative person for requesting sexual monogamy.
Well, considering that lately we seem to have day after day, letter after letter (today it’s this one, yesterday it was “felony”) of women not only putting up with incredibly BAD behavior, but then a surprising amount of other women sticking up for the letter writer’s utterly inane choices… “Give him another chance!” “One mistake does not an idiot make!” “There is worse than than alcohol fueled breaking and entering!” “Maybe he was date rape drugged!” …Hey, sorry, but I think that sometimes people need to be called out for their bad choices. Not too mention their bad advice. (Note: Wendy is NOT giving the bad advice, mind you. It’s fellow commenters…) All I am trying to say here is that if some of these women made better choices, I wouldn’t need to call them out on their silly foolishness. But if people act so deliberately stupid, hey, I am not going to be afraid to call them on it.
And PS, by the way, I have been just as harsh (if not more so) on the men in question, so get off the whole woman bashing b.s.
*raises hand*
I’m the one who suggested he might have been drugged. The women all seem to think it’s impossible.
Whoops. JSW, somehow I forgot that you were a dude…the perils of using initials… My bad.
Have you read most of the comments? Well over 150, and except for a few, virtually everyone on here (male or female), is calling for this women to dump his ass. Even most of those are who are throwing out some crazy statements (such as jsw, god love him) are STILL saying that ultimately she should dump this a-hole. And yet you are reacting as though everybody on here is telling her that she should give him a second chance.
Hey, to me, these latest letters are so black and white, the fact that ANYBODY, even if it’s only a handful of people, could agree that second chances should be given is beyond surprising to me. And with the letter yesterday, it was far more than that…
So suddenly anybody who has a whacked sense of things suddenly means that all commenters here are delusion and stupid? What kind of logic is that? To be fair, I haven’t read the last few days letters, but its really immaterial to this letter, as this is where you chose to make your observations.
You are clearly a smart, astute guy, but sometimes I get the impression you use the bitter label just to be contentious and stir the pot a bit.
Take a chill pill. I never said everybody. I said a surprising number of people. And hey, if I notice a pattern on here with the letters that nobody else seems to be calling out, I think it’s a point worthy of discussion. And yes — some pots definitely do need to be stirred. Why? Because it seems that people make the same mistakes over and over and over again.
That, plus I like it when people get in fights here. Remember when that one LW wrote in to defend herself and it got heated quickly? That was fun. I wasted a lot of work time that day reading comments.
I, as a woman, agree with you BGM. Many women DO put up with a lot of bullshit because they are afraid to be alone. For whatever reason, society has a stigma that women that are alone are pathetic & have something wrong with them.
There is NOTHING wrong with being single!! I have been guilty of putting up with plenty of really in-my-face bad behavior for the sake of “love.”
There are men that put up with bullshit too, but its more common with women. I can completely vouch for that.
Sometimes I think your rants cross a line, but in this one, you were pretty right on.
This x 10000
Agree with you LTC and with BGM’s original rant.
It was no accident he did this the night before she was supposed to come home. His lizard brain knew EXACTLY what it was doing. He will cheat again and again. Dump him.
-Enjoying your use of the word jezebel-
my gosh….I’m so confused. Why are you still with him after you found him in bed with a woman? There are some things a person can forgive and move on from and being disrespected is not one of them. He might as well have shoved you down the stairs or threw your puppy out of the window. You need to love yourself more than this! There are guys out there that will love you and adore you and if they don’t they will have the guts to break up with you before they ever think of cheating. Go find that guy.
i havent read all the comments, but if no one’s brought this up: if he talked to her on the phone, repeatedly, how can you be sure that this was the first/only time they’ve slept together. find someone who respect you, and get rid of this guy.
Wendy hit the nail on the head. As I was reading, I was like why on earth would you call her?!?!?! Was what he already admitted to not bad enough?!?!?!?!?! I could understand her wanting to call if he had said “oh Baby, nothing happened I swear.” But he admitted it! LW, he’s a drunk, a cheater, and irresponsible with his health and yours! MOA! You will find a great guy who respects you.
Also, as a side note, I hate the “I was drunk” excuse. Being drunk lowers your inhibitions, but it doesn’t change who you are. For this guy, I’m betting the urge was there and once he got a little dutch courage in him, he acted on it. “A drunk man’s words are a sober man’s thoughts.”
I had a married friend who suspected her husband was cheating and was considering leaving him. Talking to the other woman helped her make the decision to leave. Hearing details of his affair made her finish it. If that’s what this LW needs then she should go ahead. One more stab in the heart may be the shove she needs to get out of it.
Yes, yes, yes. I think what everyone is forgetting here is that the LW is seriously hurting. It may not be that she has sub-zero self-esteem that makes her want to believe him so that everything will be ok. It may just be that she’s still too shocked to accept what happened. When I found out about my husband’s affair, and he asked me what I wanted to do, my response was, “pretend it never happened.” Not because I’m stupid, or lack self-esteem. I put myself through school, working full time, have a professional career, and have overcome a great deal in my life. I am happy and fulfilled with who I am and what I’m doing. But I also wanted to take my husband back (and, in fact, seriously tried to work things out with him). But I did all that because I really wasn’t ready to accept that my husband CHEATED on me, disrespected me, loved someone else, lied to me, didn’t put me first, and basically didn’t give a sh*t about me anymore. That is an awful lot to accept immediately. I know all of us would like to think we’d shank/shoot/maim/insert violent word here the a**hat who did something like that to us. We’d like to think that because we’re strong, empowered, 21st century women (or men), that we’d never think twice about it. But coming to terms with what’s happened is generally the roadblock to making that decision. Accepting the painful new reality hurts A LOT. The LW is probably not ready to do that yet. Give her a break. IF she writes back in a year wondering how she’s going to forgive him with cheating with girl #4, then she might deserve the harshness. But not yet. Really. Give her a break and tell her what she needs to hear-which is: I know you don’t want to accept what happened because of how much it will hurt. But if you don’t MOA, it will just hurt way, WAY more later.
DON’T SLEEP WITH HIM AND GET TESTED IF YOU DID.
Oh no. Why was there nothing in the whole letter about considering breaking up with him? It’s one thing if it’s hard to make up your mind to do it because you love him, but is it really not on the table?
Ok, I get that for some people a drunken one-night-stand with a stranger is not automatically a deal-breaker. But meeting a girl (sober) and being in touch with her regularly behind your back would be enough to end it for other people. There was clearly a lead-up to sleeping with her, so the drunk excuse, even it it’s one you would accept, is not valid.
I don’t know what “truth” you are looking for. If the explanation your currently have is his way of covering up something even worse, then I don’t even wanna know what kind of mess he’s got himself into. Really, he even admitted that they have been talking regularly beforehand. There is nothing to be gained by contacting that woman.
As nearly everyone else said, it’s pretty clearly time to MOA. Just be glad you have your own place, and don’t have kids with this guy.
Really, how low does your self-esteem have to be for this situation to be Ok?
If it were me the letter to DW would have went something like:
Dear Wendy,
After beating my scummy boyfriend and the hobag he was shagging in our bed to a bloody senseless pulp, I was charged with an attempted double homicide. Do you think this will affect my future career plans?
Just sayin…
Does anybody else think that perhaps the jerk boyfriend did it on purpose to get the LW to break up with HIM?
i think that’s the bottom line. he wants to get rid of her. it’s the only explanation.