“I Hate Hanging Out With My Boyfriend’s Friends and Family”
New readers, welcome to Dear Wendy, a relationship advice blog. Read some of the most popular Dear Wendy posts here. If you don’t find the info you need in this column, please visit the Dear Wendy archives or the forums (you can even start your own thread), do a search in the search bar, or submit a question for advice at wendy(AT)dearwendy.com.
Whenever we get together as a group (which is often), my boyfriend and his friends go do “guy stuff” and leave me with the wives. (I am the ONLY unmarried one). I then proceed to sit there, completely bored, for hours while these women drone on about things I have no interest in. None of them work, and seemingly none of them have any interest outside of little Johnny’s potty training and little Susy’s Halloween costume. I try to chime in with topics ranging from the latest celebrity scandal or new fashion trend to current news stories, but I am met with polite nods and the conversation reverts back to kids, homemaking, and complaints about husbands.
As a woman who works a full-time job, has been divorced, and dislikes children, I have absolutely nothing in common with these women, and, to be honest, I wouldn’t hang out with any of them if it weren’t for my boyfriend. And yet, we (together and also me separately) get invited to EVERYTHING. My calendar fills up with dinner parties, birthdays, and baby showers for these people faster than my actual friends can make plans.
These women also have a nasty habit of getting extremely butt-hurt if you decline an invitation. I started lying about work responsibilities and other plans to avoid attending their dull engagements, but due to the nature of their husbands to pop by unexpectedly I’ve gotten caught on a few occasions watching Netflix on my couch on a night I claimed to be working. I feel like I have to hide or fake a smile and deal with it.
My boyfriend’s family is another matter altogether: half are overly conservative judgmental types. (I get regular lectures about my social media posts and opinions on everything from gay marriage to lack of interest in having children). And the other half are full-blown drug addicts (loud, draining, and in denial). Every holiday has ended in a blow-out. I am exhausted.
My boyfriend is a kind, caring, hardworking individual. He acknowledges the problems I have with his friends and family and even agrees with my complaints (especially where his family is concerned). And yet, if I suggest we skip a dinner or gathering, he gets upset. He claims he doesn’t know what to do because I “hate” his friends and family and he still wants to see them ALL THE TIME.
I’ve been trying to just let him go on his own, but then I am bombarded by texts asking where I am. I don’t understand how people who ignore me so much could possibly be so interested in my attendance at their events. I have half a mind to just tell them I don’t like them, but I don’t want to damage my boyfriend’s relationship with his long-time friends (and I definitely don’t want to piss off his screw-loose family members).
Meanwhile, I have an amazing family (whom my boyfriend loves) and really cool and interesting friends. However, when we spend time with them, we are met with guilt trips. My boyfriend’s mom complains when we leave her house to go visit my family on holidays. If we tell his friends we have made plans with my friends, they sulk and try to convince us to change our plans.
My boyfriend does not stick up for us and instead just ignores their remarks and complaints. I was unaware this would even be a problem as an adult. I am not sure what to do anymore. Any advice would be appreciated. — Over His Friends and Family
Ok, here’s some concrete advice for you: if hanging out with your boyfriend’s friends is so unpleasant, stop doing it so much. Continue making up white lies about why you have to turn down certain invitations. If you get caught in a lie, just say your plans changed. Who cares if these wives stop liking you? Maybe then you won’t get invited to so many things and you can’t stop lying about why you aren’t available.
And when all the couples are together and the group starts dividing by gender, break the divide. Go hang out with the men who are doing “guy things.” You can do guy things, too! What’s going to happen? You think they’re going to tell you to go play with the wives? No. You think the wives are going to side-eye you? WHO CARES!
I have another idea: start hosting and/or organizing events (dinner parties, float trips, ball games, picnics, BBQs, whatever) where you invite sets of people from both your and your boyfriend’s friend groups. See what happens when you blend your “really cool and interesting friends” with your boyfriend’s more traditional (or, as you might say, “boring”) buddies.
Don’t always invite the same people. Mix it up. See if you can find a good group dynamic. See if some of your friends can bring out the personality of your boyfriend’s friends. Maybe they can even help you see some of the value in these people you have so far turned your up nose at. If you love your boyfriend and you see a future with him and the major issue in your relationship is your relationship with the other people in his life, it is worth it to make an effort to bridge the gap.
One more thing: You say you get regular lectures from your boyfriend’s family about the things you share on social media, from your feelings on gay marriage to your lack of interest in having kids. My advice: either stop sharing these personal feelings on a public platform, or block the offending parties from reading your status updates. Also, I guess I don’t know why you need to broadcast that you aren’t interested in having kids (if you do broadcast that). If you are regularly making disparaging comments about children or about parenthood or about how your choice to remain child-free is better than other people’s choice to have kids, I could understand why that might rub people the wrong way.
Basically, what I’m saying is: Check yourself before you wreck yourself. Or, more accurately: before you wreck your relationship.
***************
Follow along on Facebook, and Instagram.
If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
Yeah, what a bunch of vapid idiots! Who talks about their stupid kids when they could endlessly prattle on instead about the latest important celebrity scandal or up to the minute fashion trend…
Sorry. LW. But you sure don’t paint yourself very well here.
Right? I’m guessing these wives aren’t complete idiots. Nor every single one of the relatives. They probably pick up on this LW’s contempt and so they don’t really try to engage. I’m sorry, but if I were around someone who constantly looked down on my life choices or my viewpoints, I would not want to try and friend that person. At all.
.
LW, it’s awesome you come from an enlightened, superior family and your friends are intellectually stimulating, but come on. Your attitude stinks. I have a good job. I follow politics. I lean left. I eat out at amazing restaurants, see shows, travel. BUT, I come from a small town where most are conservative and Catholic and I can still talk to everyone when I’m home and I can enjoy their company. As Wendy said, when my Dad, or a family member starts talking BS about something I don’t agree with, I disengage or change the subject.
Yeah, I wouldn’t really want to hang out with her.
I also have politics that disagree with family members but I’m not in your face with it so we’re regularly fighting about social media. Like status updates are what matters in this world.
Thats the point. She doesnt want to hang out with them, and yet, when she declines, they get upset, even though they show no interest in her as a person either. Their attitude stinks, too, youre just probably as boring as them and therefore unable to see that.
I don’t agree with Wendy’s advice. Instead, run! His friends and family won’t embrace you. I’m conservative, intelligent and don’t want any kids either. That said, your core values do not match. Find someone who will help you grow as a person Abandoning you to sit with “women” shows he isn’t all that great. 2 years is nothing. He should include you. Afterall, he has a Long standing rapport with his friends and family. It’s his responsibility to protect you and live with you with understanding. If he can’t do that, he isn’t that great. And you shouldn’t lie. Tell them the truth that it’s difficult since you’re values don’t align and that their journey is completely different that yours; its not more important because they have children to raise. Deciding not to have children is also an extremely important one.
I agree with this. I’m educated and never married with no children. I have nothing in common with women who are SAH moms because I have always worked most of my adult life. The OP needs a boyfriend who has more in common with her as well. She is not going to be able to do this forever.
Something else to note: If she were to marry her boyfriend, most likely he would have the expectation of her not working also. Men tend to do and see what their friends do, and somehow think that’s the right path to go.
If I, a random internet person, can sense your attitude and disdain through an online advice column…the people around you DEFINITELY can. Look – you don’t have to be BFFs with these people. But, change your attitude! Your boyfriend likes these people. And he likes you. Find some common ground – Wendy’s suggestions are perfect. You might have to go a little out of your way (hey, it’s part of being an adult), but the end result will be worth it.
.
Also – huge bonus points to your boyfriend for holding on to friends from grade school. He sounds like a good guy – don’t blow it.
We can connect to anyone, if we try. The trick is to shift your connection (attention) from the mind to the heart. If you can relate to these people from your heart, they will respond and engage with you.
Ooh, I like that. And it’s so true.
agreed.
Please take Wendy’s advice, LW. I could probably check off a lot of the same boxes as you (not so hot on kids, liberal with conservative Facebook acquaintances, definitely not going to be a homemaker), but for some reason I don’t have the same annoyance level as you. Part of it might be age (less married friends, less friends with kids), but even then, Wendy has some great ideas for managing your relationships. Especially the Facebook thing: if you don’t already have custom groups for your updates, get on that now. I have a custom group of family members who tend to overcomment in uncomfortable ways, so they don’t get most of my updates. And the family guilt trip thing, please try to see it in the way Wendy frames it. I have family members who would say things like this and it really helped to see it as them showing how much they like you and want to spend time with you.
One last thing: when I’m in a social setting where the men and women start dividing themselves, I usually find myself in the male group and no one has said a word to me about it. If the women are aware that you really have no interest in kids, I don’t think they’re going to try to force you back with them.
Wow. I just…..wow.
I’m trying not to snark, but with the amount of contempt, disdain and utter superiority just oozing from this letter, it’s hard to know what to advise. Other than to MOA, and leave your boyfriend to the friends and family he loves. Otherwise, he’s going to spend the rest of his life caught in the middle between you and his loved ones, and that’s a hellish way to live. You’re already hurting him, because he can see that you despise these people and detest spending time with them. Just go. Find a guy with friends and family who are up to your standards.
.
I’m serious – when you plan a future with a guy, you get the family and friends, too. It’s part of the deal. If you can’t tolerate any of them, then you need to walk away.
So yeah I do agree with Wendy’s advice and I think you need to take a look at your attitude. I do think that you and your bf need to come up with a fair number of times to spend with both friend groups and families. You should be able to hang out with both and learn to ignore them if either one complains about you hanging out with the other group. I also would block those people from your fb like Wendy said.
.
I will say that the LW might have just been asked when they’re having kids. I know my husband and I have been asked and yet there are many friends and family who just won’t stop asking and pushing. So in that respect I feel for the LW assuming she isn’t letting it be known that she thinks her position is better and not just different.
So, in the one hand, I understand to a degree where this LW is coming from (not her attitude, though!). My husband has a group of friends he’s had since high school or before and we are the only couple among them who do not have and are not going to have kids. Most of the wives don’t work. And, yeah, most of the conversation turns around their kids and more “domestic” stuff and their husbands, etc. Oh, and some of the wives are super conservative/religious, so church comes up a lot, too. I have no kids, work full time and am far from conservative or religious. On the surface of it, I should have nothing to talk to these women about. And yet, bizarrely enough, we manage to hang out when our husbands hang out and have conversations in a wide array of topics. Sure they talk about their kids. And then we talk about recipes (I love to cook), football, what’s going on in each of their lives – illnesses, promotions, new houses, etc. – pets, gardening, vacations, current events and so on. Hang out with these people alone less, LW, since they drive you nuts. And take Wendy’s suggestion to host your own parties. (Tip: get a babysitter for the kids to keep them out of the way at your place.) But also, just because these women may be stay at home moms and you’re a career woman doesn’t mean that you have nothing in common. Make more of an effort to find it. Surely someone as interesting as you can find something mutually interesting to talk about. And quit bitching about his friends’ wives to your BF. Seriously. As for his family members, you’re just gonna have to suck it up and deal like pretty much everyone else in the world has to do on some area with the “in laws.” They (like the friends) come with your BF.
Stay at home moms and career women have nothing in common!
I didn’t like my husband’s friends at first. I still have my issues with them but we’ve found a happy medium of doing things with them together and me just opting out. Them wishing me well as I introvert out at home. Which happened because I made an effort to look past the things I thought sucked about them (and I’m sure what they thought sucked about me) and tried to find the positives. Even if the only thing I found at first was that they’d been friends with my husband since toddlerhood and nothing else, that was enough for me to care about what this person was all about to at least try and chip away at my negative views.
.
I wouldn’t be surprised if your boyfriend stopped seeing a future with you if you don’t start being more inclusive towards his family and friends since they’re such a big part of his life and always have been.
.
What are your motives? Like, why are you so annoyed that they’re all married? I know you try and bring up conversations but what they are already doing is conversing. Maybe they just don’t want to get into it if you are bringing up news stories and you have differing viewpoints like different sociocultural aspects of events. Why don’t you talk to them about work or what’s going on in your life rather than what’s been happening in some celebrity’s?
.
I don’t know if you see how nice it is that you’re getting invited out separately from your boyfriend with these friends when all you do is shit on their lives. Maybe not in front of them, but people tend to give off a negative vibe when they feel it. Maybe your friends need to get their act together and make some plans or you need to chunk out some personal time for yourself. I tell my friends the truth when I just need to unwind in a non-group way.
That’s too bad you can’t navigate getting along with conservative family members to the point of agree to disagree and discuss other things at get-togethers. Plus, with holidays, you don’t necessarily have to bring up someone’s chemical dependency even if it’s obvious. It doesn’t help the issue but it doesn’t sound like your place except how it affects you.
It doesn’t sound like they ignore you at all. Really the only relationship that would be damaged if you tell them that you don’t like them isn’t yours and theirs, but yours and your boyfriend’s. He isn’t going to want to stay with someone who so blatantly disrespects the people who’ve been with him through everything vs the last couple years.
The guilt trips are funny. I ignore those too. I get them from family and friends occasionally as does my husband. BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO SPEND TIME WITH US. And you apparently. It’s annoying but it’s how some people show they care. Just ignore it and do your own thing, see people as often as you’re comfortable and don’t if you don’t. I don’t know what you expect your boyfriend to do, do you seriously want to put him in a position of telling his family and friends that he’s chosen to keep someone in his life that hates everyone else he loves?
I can’t believe so many people like you and want to hang out with you, how do you handle it! Have you ever thought that your boyfriend thinks your friends are boring drones, but hangs out with them without complaining, because it means something to you? It seems you are the one making everything miserable, because you don’t want to hangout with anybody who isn’t like you. If that is the way you want to go through your life it is best to find somebody who shares the same values as yours, and can distance himself from any friends and family that share an opposing view, or has kids. You just have to realize though, that being in your 30’s means your friends are going to be the ones with the kids soon, and that is what they are going to be talking about with each other when you hang out with them.
What Wendy and everyone else said.
My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 years. His best friends from high school basically are his family (calls them brothers, kids call him uncle, etc). I don’t have ton in common with them, given the long shared history, inside jokes and that everyone is married and has children. It’s gotten easier as the kids have gotten older and more self-sufficient, as our social events are now more adult oriented and we can bond over wine and cheese 🙂 I do my best to endure the brother that annoys me the most – because he is the one boyfriend is close to. It’s really just his style to be kind of loud, annoying and ‘out there’ so he doesn’t seem to mind when people with spar with him or just ignore him. I feel like the best solution has been time to find my place in the group, occasional activities without children (small groups of 2-3 couples) and ducking out when I know I’m tired/cranky and not feeling social. It is a balance that keeps me involved in the family enough but not overkill – and lets my boyfriend know I care about him and his friends/family.
But…you’re not as happy with your relationship with your boyfriend as you think you are. His friends and family are a huge part of who he is, that is pretty obvious from this letter. They will always have a place in his life. Even if you find them “boring”, they are part of his life. A BIG part of his life. Your attitude says a LOT more about you than it says about them. I have friends who have had kids and yeah I can’t always relate to them all the time because of that (talk of midnight feedings, tummy time, etc.), but we’re still friends.
.
You will only build resentment with your boyfriend if this keeps up. I guarantee it.
They are boring to the OP. I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I agree with the bad attitude, but I can kind of see LW’s point. If we hung out that much with my husband’s friends, I bet we would have never gotten married. The first summer we were together, we hung out with his friends constantly. And if I didn’t go, it was the same barrage of wondering where I am. To make things worse, that summer I was travelling to Europe all the time for work (not exciting trips, either, boring work ones where all I did was sit in a conference room all day), so I was always jetlagged. I think the entire summer, I didn’t have one weekend to myself, between work travel and hanging out with his friends. And it wasn’t just a few hours with his friends, it always had to be a trip to camping or a cottage or something, because some of them still lived at home and the ones who were couples wanted to get away so they could sleep together. So the entire weekend was taken up, AND it required travel, which I was heartily sick of by that point.
.
My point is, at the end of the summer, I would have sounded like this LW. My husband’s friends are fine, but they’re not my friends, you know? They’re just not the people I would have picked. They’re nice and we get along, but there isn’t that connection the way there is with the people that I chose to be my own friends. Plus there are some things about them that I really don’t like, that would have made me drop them as friends if it was my choice. Mainly that two of them were constantly sleeping with married men and they all thought that was fine. It’s wearing, when you feel like you can’t get out of it, and it’s taking up so much of your time. The resentment builds up, no matter how good a face you put on the outside. Luckily for me, winter came along and put the kibosh on all the camping. And by the next summer everyone had their own place so they weren’t always pushing to go away for the weekend. If that hadn’t happened, I don’t think I would have stayed with my now-husband.
.
So my advice is this. If you really can’t stand these people, then you should leave. If you marry this guy, this is your life. Make an effort first, as people have said above. But if you’re too far down this rabbit hole and there’s too much resentment for you to climb out, then I don’t think there’s much you can do. You certainly can’t force your boyfriend to spend much less time than he does, because this is how he’s set up his life and he likes it this way. Asking him to choose between a girlfriend of two years and the friends he’s had since he was a kid isn’t going to go well for you. Even if he did pick you, he’d be miserable, and you’d still have his family to deal with anyway. So you either try the suggestions that Wendy and others have given, or you leave this guy and find someone whose lifestyle meshes better with your own.
I can kind of relate to her too, but the fact is that she’s choosing to be all “woe is me” about it. I definitely agree with your last paragraph.
Oh, man. I can totally relate to hating getting lumped into “The Wives” with my husband’s friends. And man, I hate baby talk and all the poop, feeding, naptime, preschool talk that goes along with it. I just can’t understand that mentality, and someone has my permission to shoot me if I ever can.
.
However, two things make The Wives tolerable. The first is when I step back and look at how much these people love my husband. They’ve all been friends forever, and it’s so obvious how proud they are of him and how much they enjoy being around him. It’s lovely and inspiring. And even though I am making very different choices for myself, they want to love and accept me, too, just the way I am. They listen when I express my wants and desires, even if they’re just as mystified about me as I am about them. The point is they’re good people, and they love my husband so much they’re willing to put up with me. The least I can do is show up sometimes, listen back, and try.
.
The second thing that has gradually made The Wives tolerable is that several of my “cool and interesting” friends in the last few years have suddenly switched camps to become homemakers and mothers themselves. And wouldn’t you know it? They’ve ended up exactly like The Wives in terms of their interests and conversational skills. I had to choose to learn how to relate to them, too, or risk losing them down the rabbit hole of domesticity forever. And dammit, I don’t want to have to make increasingly younger friends every few years. So you know what? It doesn’t kill me to look at baby pictures and talk about poop and breastfeeding schedules and so on. In fact, I’ve learned a lot because it turns out The Wives are willing to answer all kinds of gross and weird questions about babies and pregnancy and whatnot. (Don’t ask about the mucus plug. Just don’t.) That can make conversation way more fun.
.
Also, my husband and I secretly can laugh about a lot of this later, and then high-five while yelling “CHILDLESS BY CHOICE!” as we sleep until noon on the weekends. Knowing we’re a team and on the same page regardless of what it seems like everyone else is doing makes everything worth it.
I was gonna chime in and say it happens to everyone when they have kids, but you got to that conclusion later in your story. 🙂 But also, it’s not just “the wives”. Plenty of husbands do it too. Maybe not when they’re around just the guys, but when they’re with women with kids, they loooove talking about their kids. Just last Friday I went to lunch with a couple of guy work friends who I haven’t seen since I had my kid. And yeah, it was pretty much all we talked about. And I saw it back before I had my kid, too, when my group of friends was all starting to have kids. Not only could you not talk to the moms, you couldn’t talk to the dads either!
.
It’s possible that where I live (relatively left-leaning) and the class we’re in (relatively high-earning professionals) has something to do with it, but I find that the dads are very very involved. When I pick up my son from daycare, probably half the parents are dads. I took him for a walk down in the trendy area near us on Saturday morning, and almost all the parents I saw were dads. Playground is half dads, if not more. Parents walking babies in strollers is probably 30% dads. The times they are a’changin’!
Forget the friends for a minute, and let’s focus on the family…
I definitely come from the opinion that if you marry the guy, you marry his family. And I would expand that to if you are going to be in a long term relationship with a guy, you are also in a relationship with his family. Maybe they really are that bad (hyper conservative drug users, that is) but it doesn’t matter. You love your boyfriend and he loves his family. You’re stuck with them as long as you stick with him. That means spending (some) holidays and (some) birthdays and (some) events with them. Suck it up and deal or break up with him. Full stop.
Now as for practical advice on how to deal, I do have a few suggestions.
1. Stop being friends with them on facebook. Just do it. Yeah it sounds like they may have hurt feelings over this, but let them deal with their feelings and just be clear that your boundaries require you not to get into political discussions with them over facebook posts and that’s the end of it. Do not engage them on the topic, just restate the same line, and change the subject.
2. I do think that this crap with his mother gettting weird about you spending holidays with your family is bullshit, but you really need to enlist your boyfriend on this. He is the one that needs to say “Mom we love spending Christmas with you, but LW also loves her family and wants to spend time with them. We spent Thanksgiving with you and will be spending Christmas with LW family.” Or whatever it is. Divide the holidays how you want, make the guidelines or plans (our rule is only Christmas or Thanksgiving with his family and the other one we stay home, my parents get a Jewish holiday or other event of their choice), and then stick to them. But the important part is that your boyfriend be the one who breaks the news to his mom and stands firm– it needs to come from him, not the witch who’s taking her baby boy away.
If you can’t do these things, then break up with the guy.
As for the friends, Wendy is spot on. You don’t have to hang with the wives when the group splits off, you don’t have to go to every event and you don’t even have to have a good excuse (vague work reasons and then, if caught, say you ended up getting the night off are fine). You do still have to tolerate these people occasionally for your boyfriend’s sake, but you definitely do not need to go to every baby shower and tupperware party and dinner invite.
Again I suggest making boundaries/rules and sticking to them. If your boundary is “one dinner party per month” then show up to that dinner party and try to have a good time, then beg off the rest. Maybe by freeing yourself from the constant onslaught of events, you’ll find that the one you do attend is not so bad.
Totally agree with limiting time. See my post above where I was spending all my free time with my husband’s friends. Getting a break from it makes it a lot easier to enjoy it now during the times that we see them. In fact I even find myself missing the get-togethers!
Why does she have to be a witch? That was harsh…smh.
I see two issues here. (1)The monopoly of time that his friends and family seem to take up and (2) the actual interaction with them when the LW spends time with them. I have sympathy for the first point and you and your boyfriend should work out between the two of you how much time is spent with each other’s sides and by yourself so there isn’t a constant sense of burn out around one particular set of people. Maybe both of you attend two events per month per side together? Anything more than that the other person is on their own. And the answer isn’t a white lie when asked about your absence it is “sorry I can’t make it – I have plans” plans with your friends, your family, your couch, a bottle of shampoo – whatever – plans. Maybe if they are not in your face 24/7 you can look beyond your differences to see them as nice people and realize that feigning interest in what Jimmy dressed up as for Halloween won’t kill you but will make your boyfriend happy. I’ve been at events where the men peeled off and left the women – none of whom believed in working outside of the home or furthering their education short of finding a husband – and I managed to find something to chat about even when they were looking to me horrified because I didn’t have children yet. Are they my kind of women? nope. Would I pick them if I had a choice? nope. Did it kill me to smile, nod and throw in random occasional question when I couldn’t care less about the answer? nope. And 9 times out of 10 at the end of the night I’ve had a few laughs… and learned the name of the website that ships lipstick, coconut sugar and diapers for free.
Also cookie exchange? I have never heard of that but I am so doing that this Christmas!!!
LW, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that maybe you ended up coming across a little more… strongly than you meant in your letter. I can see how it would be exhausting to constantly have to either go to these functions, or make up excuses to not go (which is understandable, and if you have to make excuses because you’ll be bombarded with messages and texts asking where you are etc… sometimes it’s easier to just make something up). When I started dating my now husband I was kind of in the same boat as you, we had to go to family dinners every Sunday, from morning to night, and all of his family members were chain smokers and I’d be left to listen to his Grandma and Mom complained about this that or the other… anyway, not a fun atmosphere and not how I’d choose to spend 50% of my days off! What changed was that I gradually stopped going every Sunday… I went maybe every other weekend, then sometimes once a month. They DID ask my husband if I hated them (yeah, they’re dramatic) and at first he wanted me to go back to attending every Sunday, but I finally made him realize that it just wasn’t the same for me to hang out with his family as it was for him (NOT a relaxing atmosphere for me), and I only had so many days off and sometimes I wanted to just be alone (I never discouraged him from going, which I see you do with your boyfriend). He gradually realized this AND also started fielding their questions and complaints about me not being there, and either told them I was busy/tired/working or changed the subject. Your boyfriend needs to get on the same page as you and realize where you’re coming from, and not that you HATE his family/friends (or if you do… don’t tell him that!) but that you like your alone time or hanging out with your friends, that it’s just more relaxing for you. Make it less about his friends/family and more about YOU and why you’d like some time away from these gatherings. If he’s really hurt that you can’t/won’t go to EVERY engagement you’re invited to, this may just not be the relationship for you.
P.S. I feel you on the ‘guilt trips’ to spend more time with the family too… I’ve spent the past 5 Christmases with my in laws and every time we left to go to my family’s they tried to get us to stay another day (8 hour travel between the 2 families). When we told them we’d be doing Christmas with my family this year, my MIL actually suggested that my husband spend Christmas with them and I can visit my family alone. Yikes.
Why do you say you “had to” go to his family dinners? Are they putting a gun to your head and forcing you to go because no one can do that.
LW, I do think some people are getting a little harsh about your motives. Whatever your opinions of people, you feel like his life and friends are taking up too much of your time. I get it. I had to explain to my friends and family that I only have 8 days a month to myself. So if we spend two saturdays with his parents and two with his friends, that leaves zero for you.
I dealt with this when my husband and I were first married. First off, his family would guilt us about holidays like New Years Day which I don’t feel is a family holiday. What I found out was two things. The first was that if they said “We missed you or it won’t be the same without you,” it really means that they are showing they care. It doesn’t mean they are disappointed. Second, you need to negotiate that your time isn’t like a game of shotgun with the car. Just because someone plans something first, doesn’t mean that they can take all your time. I dealt with this with my inlaws. They would call Thanksgiving in September. I was like, you don’t just call things but we need to balance both families.
I think this is more about you balancing your relationship rather than the family and friends. Tell your boyfriend that you will give his friends a certain allocated amount of time. Then if he wants to hang more, just allow him to go alone and don’t apologize for it. Learning how to set boundaries while being nice is one of the most important things you can learn.
Well, as to the tactical issue here, I think people have given you lots of constructive advice and restrained from being harsh while – necessarily I think – calling out how you’re coming across in your letter. Which is really *really* bad. And I say that as someone who (like many people here) can actually relate to your woes.
But look, beyond that, a couple of people have alluded to what I think is the bigger issue here. This stood out to me from your letter: “He claims he doesn’t know what to do because I “hate” his friends and family and he still wants to see them ALL THE TIME.” I think your relationship is on shakier ground than you want to admit. These types of things, like a major disagreement about how to spend time, or where to live, are a HUGE deal. It’s not like “My relationship is amazing and great except for this one thing.” A fundamental difference in lifestyle preferences is not “just this one thing.” It’s kind of… everything.
Maybe you can reach some sort of compromise, but for there to be any chance of that happening, your attitude is going to have to change. You can’t keep blaming your boyfriend and his family and his friends for all your relationship problems. You’ve got to actively work on a solution, and part of that will mean some change to your own viewpoint and behavior. You might be able to temporarily strong-arm your boyfriend into spending less time with these people than he’s comfortable with, but you know that’s going to blow up on you and he’ll end up resenting you and being upset that he can’t do what he wants to. You say you’re happy with the relationship and see a future, but I actually would not be surprised if he’s seriously questioning the future. He sounds pretty upset and stressed out about this whole thing.
Yes, this! Just as much as all these people have your boyfriend’s back, you have to also recognize that your boyfriend has theirs. It sounds like he’s choosing them regardless of what you want him to choose, so you have to learn to deal with them and play nice if you want to stay together.
I think people are being harsh. The lw sounds, judgey, sure, but she’s frustrated and I have sympathy because there’s nothing worse than friend groups where there’s an obvious gender divide and “well, were all friends because our men are friends!” thing going on. Especially when those people are boring. Yeah, yeah, she can try to make a connection anyway…but her bf wants her to hang out with these people constantly, it seems? Making a connection to people you have no connection with is exhausting.
With my sympathy paragraph done though, I don’t have actual advice. i do like the idea of doing your own hosting, inviting your own friends, but if that’s too much boat rocking, then i’d say its a husband issue.
Sorry to post on yours Fab, but… what’s up with the comment page two? Why isn’t it loading on the main page with the other comments? Do I just talk/write too much? (Don’t answer that last one.)
Oh yeah, I noticed that and it confused the shit out of me. I thought it was just my mobile being wonky.
Also, I meant “boyfriend issue” not “husband” issue (not that I’m rereading..)
I agree, she needs to hang out with her own friends that are on her level.
I do think that you and your boyfriend need to sit down and settle out a plan and a compromise for how you two are spending your time with friends. I see that as a larger issue. If all your time is being taken up by his friends’ events, and that leaves you no time for your own friends’ gatherings, then that’s just… not cool. And, if you’re getting harassed about not going to events when you do go to the majority of them, that’s also not cool. I think you and he need to agree to a specific number of events that you will attend with him, and then the rest of them you can freely decline. (Except phrase it not that you don’t want to go, but you are neglecting your own friends, commitments, and self.) For example, you and he will attend 3 gatherings per month together with his friends, you and he will attend 3 gatherings per month together with your friends, and then the rest of your time is free for each of you to do as you please. Then, if anyone asks, you can say, “I’ve got other commitments,” or, “Sorry, I’d love to attend, but I’m booked that day.” You don’t have to be any more specific than that, even if your commitment is to your couch and DVR. And, if they find out and are butt-hurt about it, well, then they can be butt-hurt about it. And they can learn to get over it.
.
That said, these friends have been in your boyfriend’s life since pretty much forever. They’re here to stay. You’re going to have to learn to get along with them, even if for the fact that they are important people to your boyfriend. I 100% get how, as someone who does not have children, it can be like nails on a chalkboard listening to people sit and talk about kids nonstop. But, see, you have to take an active role in changing that.
.
As a teacher, I have had the joy of sharing an office one year with 5 other women who were mothers to young children. And, much like your experiences, every single frickin’ time we were in the office at the same time, all they would talk about was their kids, daycare, pregnancy, childbirth, etc. I get that it was what they had in common, but it wasn’t interesting to me (and often times horrifying), and I wasn’t able to participate in conversation much. So, I could have done what you did and moped and/or changed the conversation to a monologue about my interests. Instead, I started asking questions to find out what else they were interested (as individuals and as a group). I made an effort. And I found out that we had a number of tv shows in common, one gal also did kettlebell, a few others had traveled and hoped to do so again some day. And then, I would ask further questions about these interests. Pretty soon we had conversations about mutual interests because I took the time to make the effort. So then the balance shifted to 60% mom-talk, and 40% other common topics, and that I could handle.
.
Did they end up my Best Friends Forever? Um, no. But I’m glad I made the effort if for no other fact then I was stuck with them and it made the experience more enjoyable. And, guess what. As long as you remain with your boyfriend, you’re stuck with these people too. Your boyfriend and his friends and family are a packaged deal. So I suggest you make the best of it, and start making the effort. Ask them questions, and keep asking until you find some commonalities you can converse about with them.
*than
She is not “stuck” with them. She is only tolerating them for a season until she decides to move on.
I do think that you and your boyfriend need to sit down and settle out a plan and a compromise for how you two are spending your time with friends. I see that as a larger issue. If all your time is being taken up by his friends’ events, and that leaves you no time for your own friends’ gatherings, then that’s just… not cool. And, if you’re getting harassed about not going to events when you do go to the majority of them, that’s also not cool. I think you and he need to agree to a specific number of events that you will attend with him, and then the rest of them you can freely decline. (Except phrase it not that you don’t want to go, but you are neglecting your own friends, commitments, and self.) For example, you and he will attend 3 gatherings per month together with his friends, you and he will attend 3 gatherings per month together with your friends, and then the rest of your time is free for each of you to do as you please. Then, if anyone asks, you can say, “I’ve got other commitments,” or, “Sorry, I’d love to attend, but I’m booked that day.” You don’t have to be any more specific than that, even if your commitment is to your couch and DVR. And, if they find out and are butt-hurt about it, well, then they can be butt-hurt about it. And they can learn to get over it.
.
That said, these friends have been in your boyfriend’s life since pretty much forever. They’re here to stay. You’re going to have to learn to get along with them, even if for the fact that they are important people to your boyfriend. I 100% get how, as someone who does not have children, it can be like nails on a chalkboard listening to people sit and talk about kids nonstop. But, see, you have to take an active role in changing that.
.
As a teacher, I have had the joy of sharing an office one year with 5 other women who were mothers to young children. And, much like your experiences, every single frickin’ time we were in the office at the same time, all they would talk about was their kids, daycare, pregnancy, childbirth, etc. I get that it was what they had in common, but it wasn’t interesting to me (and often times horrifying), and I wasn’t able to participate in conversation much. So, I could have done what you did and moped and/or changed the conversation to a monologue about my interests. Instead, I started asking questions to find out what else they were interested (as individuals and as a group). I made an effort. And I found out that we had a number of tv shows in common, one gal also did kettlebell, a few others had traveled and hoped to do so again some day. And then, I would ask further questions about these interests. Pretty soon we had conversations about mutual interests because I took the time to make the effort. So then the balance shifted to 60% mom-talk, and 40% other common topics, and that I could handle.
.
Did they end up my Best Friends Forever? Um, no. But I’m glad I made the effort if for no other fact then I was stuck with them and it made the experience more enjoyable. And, guess what. As long as you remain with your boyfriend, you’re stuck with these people too. Your boyfriend and his friends and family are a packaged deal. So I suggest you make the best of it, and start making the effort. Ask them questions, and keep asking until you find some commonalities you can converse about with them.
I agree with this piece of advice- try as hard as you can to find some common ground with these women, even if you have to instigate it by bringing along some fun group activity or game some of you could play together- I’ve certainly experienced the reaction of “well what’s the point of you, then” when in large groups of women who all have children and think I have nothing of interest to offer at all in the face of their great and all consuming human experience. Nothing I say or do interests them and I can see why, they have a huge thing in common which occupies nearly all their time, it is like being the only scaffolding engineer at a party of neurologists you have novelty value at best which soon wears off. So you maybe have to work extra hard to find something to bond over….just keep listening and smiling and sooner or later something is bound to crop up- it does get a lot better as their kids grow old enough to do more universal activities- even a nice long hike with moms and older kids is better than sitting about feeling like Lucy Lemon.
Wendy, what HORRIBLE advice. Not only are YOU being judgemental towards this letter, but you basically are just dissmissive of the real issue at hand, that this woman needs to get the fuck away from this boyfriend and his trashy family and the idiot stepford wives of his friends. Women who only talk about child-rearing are an embarrassment to all that we’ve fought for.
I’m pretty sure your judgemental attitude is an embarrassment to all that we’ve fought for. We’ve fought to give women the right to CHOOSE their paths in life, not to FORCE them into submitting to your idea of what women *should* do.
.
Believing that all women should adhere to *your* standard is no better than the patriarchy we’ve fought against, even if you do believe that women should be educated and travel the world and whatever else the opposite of a stepford wife is.
Parents talking about their kids with other parents are an embarrassment? Maybe it’s the only thing they have in common? Maybe they are asking for advice, or looking for reassurance.
Raising kids is not an embarrassment. Tearing other women down because they do “something” is. Shame on you.
Oops, sorry Dre. I didn’t mean to reply to your comment!
Women like you are an embarrassment to feminism. I’ve been a staunch feminist for almost 25 years. I have a degree in electrical engineering and work for a major tech company. All of my friends are career women, many of them in STEM. And guess what happens when we get together? We talk about our kids! Do you have kids? Do you have any idea how all-consuming it is when they’re young? They take over every moment of your life. Maybe you should wait until you actually have some experience of what it’s like before you go around judging women for not being what YOU think they should be.
And by the way, guess what our husbands talk about when we all get together? Holy shit, they talk about the kids too! Because they do childcare as well! Who woulda thunk it?
Well, not everybody can be a classy brat like yourself. For the sake of the world, don’t ever have any fucking kids. One of you, sweetie, is more than fucking enough.
What? I didn’t realize the point of feminism was to ban women from talking about parenting. If that’s all you’ve been fighting for (and when you say “we,” I’m curious about how much activism you’ve been involved in), then it’s unfortunate you’ve been ignoring more impactful issues. Also, I don’t think there’s anything less classy that referring to other people as trash.
I don’t agree with Wendy’s advice either. The OP doesn’t have kids and she has a career. Nothing wrong with that, so she won’t mesh with these women.
I agree!!!
When you date or marry someone, you get their friends and family. That’s just how it works. I’m not really sure what type of solution you’re looking for. He’s not going to drop them all, so that’s not happening. I think the options are either avoiding them and therefore ruining the relationships with them (which I think is a bad call if you plan to be with him long-term) or just dealing with it. Maybe if you actually act interested in his friends’ lives and like you like them, they might actually like you and be more interested in talking about your topics of interest. It’s your choice whether you want to just go and nod or whether to actually try to be friends with them and hopefully make things better. You seem to be assuming that because they are boring to you that they are bad people all around, but it’s pretty kind of them to invite you to things. Think of all the letters where someone’s partner’s friends ignore them.
As for the family, again, you get the family too. In life, you either have to put up with the loved ones of your partner or you have to pick out partners based on what their family and friends are like.
And now you understand why feminism hasn’t had more success than it has. Too narrow, insular, and focused upon white academic and upper middle to middle class women. Even back in the day when we were more involved (20-40 years ago) it was the same problem: few minorities, almost nobody below middle-middle class, almost all suburban, not projecting an air of inclusiveness, lots of in-rhetoric and purer than thou thinking to get past. The movement had energy and then it sort of faded. Many young, rural, lower middle-class and poor women and a lot of progressive men just don’t identify with the movement today.
Agreed. That was definitely an uppity, over-educated white lady commenting like that, for sure. Smug and out of touch.
It sucks to be involved with someone who seems like a good fit outside of the package of their social circle. I just ended a relationship where love was not enough and I am confident that my lack of fondness for at least a handful of his closest friends and his determination to spend excessive amounts of time with them to the exclusion of my family, friends or general interests was a big factor. Lots of remarks in these comments focus on how the girlfriend here needs to make more of an effort but I think if the relationship were to last, which I suspect it won’t, the boyfriend would need to grow up from the selfish little boy he is to a man who puts his partners wishes, needs and desire to feel at ease on par with his own. A woman who is treated with thoughtfulness, consideration and care by her partner has a MUCH easier time being cool and relaxed and chill in the infrequent uncomfortable situation she is in socially because she wants to support her partner and she knows that being friendly and pleasant and open is just part of it. Doesn’t it seem like the conflcit here is really between the girl and her man/boy and that his constant insistence that they do his thing with his people is driving her to dig in her heels against them? That’s the way I see it and from my experience I’d suggest dating a different man whose considerate behaviors toward you will naturally elevate you to be the best, most open and tolerant and accepting, version of yourself. Good luck!
P.s. Before he passed away I was married 8 years to a wonderful man. My subsequent miserable experience dating my own man/boy was so awful and baffling to me that I’m still trying to recover from it. I can tell you with certainty that there are at least some quality men in their 30s who have those wonderful long-term childhood or other close friends that they enjoy spending time with when possible but who don’t hang out with them regularly because they are pretty busy being productive, working, contributing to their household and being a great partner, spouse and/or parent. That is the kind of partner I hope to find again and had I not experienced one first hand I can imagine I would fear that they didn’t exist.
Wow, so much criticism for the poster. I for one think there is a valid concern and attacking poster is unwarrented. If a person is more of an introvert, they may find it hard to interact with people they have fewer things in common with, and if regular interaction is sought, it can become overwhelming and embittering. Clearly poster has reached personal limits and resentment sets in because her personal boundaries are shuttered. Not everyone can build friendships easily and consistently with people thrust upon them. If you are a person who easily finds common grounds with others, more power to you, but it can be very difficult for others.
Poster should look to the inside and start following inner voice and enforcing personal boundaries – i.e. Do not do what you don’t want to do. Only then resentment will disappear and with a comfortable frequency of interaction, she may even start to see value or enjoyment in it.
EVERYONE HERE IS SO JUDGEMENTAL AND RUDE!!!!! LW is honestly right with what she’s saying (mostly). What if these people are unbearable? What if there is more than what she is telling you? Why are you all sticking up for the friends and family? A relationship is about TWO PEOPLE! Those two people (LW and her boyfriend) should have the strongest bond BEFORE the other friends and family. I’m sorry but LW and her Boyfriend are not babies. They don’t NEED their family anymore. In your 30s etc family is all about holidays and holidays are created by society and the illuminati. Family is from prehistoric times when we were pre-programmed by the reptilians on this planet to have survival mechanisms and biological reproductive need. Friends are included in this, social structures allowed us to survive on this earth and as a support system. Being accepted into these groups genetically explains our need in modern times to be accepted by family.
All you commenters are literally idiots who need to be put in your places (Except one commenter speaking about reading people from the heart). This woman, LW, is having a hard time coping with this guys’ friends and family. IN WHAT WORLD IS IT OKAY TO SIDE WITH ONE SOCIAL CONSTRUCT AND NOT THE OTHER? Why is it okay to be “homemakers and conservative” and to submit to that level, and not be “independent, intellectual, modern, unmarried and liberal?”
Why is it not okay to talk about celebrities and ruthlessly post your passions and desires on Facebook? WHO THE F is making these rules? I bet you all are over 40 year old bored-a** women telling this poster what to do.
I am SO disappointed in Wendy’s comment. Way to hammer someone back into the hole of society’s deathbed! Congratulations for hurting this young woman’s dreams. If Wendy cannot give this poster advice, I will! 🙂 Here is my advice, LW:
Create a stronger bond with your boyfriend. Discuss how these people make you feel and WHY. You need to get to the bottom about why they are making you feel bitter (resented feelings about marriage and kids?) I think creating custom friends lists for Facebook is good, but I think being upfront about your views on gay marriage etc is NECESSARY. I don’t give a flying hoot if they get mad about it, you have to BE YOU. You cannot fake yourself and lie to these people, that is limiting yourself and making yourself unhappy. Be REAL to these people. When someone brings up kids, tell them how THEY are being uninclusive to you. Why can’t you compromise and talk about BOTH topics? If they can’t and they are rigid and have set the rules, move on and attend those meetings, but tell your boyfriend you will ONLY GO IF YOU AND HIM ARE GLUED TO THE HIP, HOLDING HANDS AND SHOWING YOUR LOVE FOR EACH OTHER while he is with his buds. Hang with the guys, but make sure he is holding onto you. You can make an agreement with him to do the same when he is hanging with your friends. LISTEN LW, YOU AND YOUR BOYFRIENDS BOND IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THAT ROOM. DO NOT SEPARATE, DO NOT LET ANYONE COME BETWEEN YOU.
When with his family, show an GODDESSLIKE CONFIDENCE when talking about gay marriage and not having kids, BE IRRESISTIBLY ATTRACTIVE, SMILE, LOOK THEM DEAD IN THE EYES, DRIP OF SEX AND YOUTH! GO AT IT! MAKE EVERYONE YOUR B**CH! It will be so much fun to do it, and always have your boyfriend by your side, supporting you and your views, TOGETHER. THEY ARE BOTH YOUR VIEWS, RIGHT? SUPPORT EACH OTHER. DO NOT LET GO.
TELL HIM TO PLACE HIS HAND ON YOUR HIP AND NOT LET GO. YOU ARE A PAIR.
You need to say what’s on your mind, goddamn it. And be free. LW, you are a poor suffering soul that needs to spread her wings and fly. Do not be silent. Sure! lie sometimes and watch netflix if you want to, but if you cannot be away from your BF and want to go…do those things. Thats what I would do. Be you. They will thank you for being authentic instead of hiding and pretending, even if its not what they want to hear. Maybe they will look up to you for your exuberant confidence and outer-worldliness that you have instead of being dull and boring like them. Definitely invite your friends and have someone there you can talk to. Wouldn’t that be fun? at the very least have your bestie come with you so you both can kind of lead the conversation aside.
BY ALL MEANS DO NOT LISTEN TO THE OTHER COMMENTS. THOSE PEOPLE ARE SO DUMB! I am 24 and I GETCHU GURL! YOUTH TRUMPS THESE OLD HAGS & THE FIRST BITTER GAY GUY WHO COMMENTED!!!!! I feel like we would be BFFs.
Anyways, keep watching that netflix GURL! LISTEN TO BEBE REXHA’s SONG “F.F.F” or “F*** Fake friends” The lyrics go,
“F*** fake friends, we don’t need ’em, the only thing they are good for is leaving!”
That is EXACTLY IT! Oh! And I’m sure your boyfriend loves his guy friends but probably can’t put up with his stupid guy friend’s wives anyways if he tried for 2 minutes. But remember, your boyfriend should be putting you FIRST! Above his friends and family! A girlfriend and WIFE in 2017 (when this YOUNGER MILLENNIAL GENERATION WILL RISE) MEANS LIFE! This is the generation of THE COUPLE! Couples over EVERYTHING! You and your boyfriend against the WORLD! Don’t you see 20 and 30 year old couples walking like they OWN THIS PLACE? yes you do! Because literally the younger generation realizes from their parents and older generations that their love, sexual relationships and bond was not as strong as the spiritual world dictates it to be. Its up to us to create that spiritual-emotional bond.
I hate my boyfriends mom for trying to make him get a job and not move to my city with me. She tried so many times to stop him from being happy and free away from his toxic environment. I can never forgive her and I hate how uneducated they all are in his family and they only care about money and working…I am an artist with a high intellect and I.Q., and indigo child and millennial, and honestly I do not stand for that. I am constantly telling him, our bond has to be heightened so we can ward off his friends and family that try to break us. Apparently his friends and family have tried to break up his other girlfriends and succeeded. But I’m too smart for that toxic plan, I’ve been around the block with my intellect, studies, research and reading…I know too much to fall for that and WE WILL CONQUER! GOOD LUCK LW!
*If this comment gets deleted I will MAKE SURE to copy and paste and post again! I gotcha girl! Wendy we all hate you!
Old hags! Haha. You’re gonna get old, too, my friend. Also, this post is two and a half years old. Old! There’s that word again! And since you think ‘old’ is the worst thing ever, you might appreciate that I couldn’t even be bothered to re-read the original thread to know what the hell you were talking about. I couldn’t even be bothered to read most of your comment because it bored me. So, there you go – I may be an old, awful hag. But you are boring. And guess what? One day sooner than you know it, you’ll be old, too. Boring AND old. So, enjoy your youth while you’re got it because it lasts for a hot minute and then you’re just left with all the qualities you didn’t bother to nurture or foster when you were younger because you were so busy dripping of sex and youth and alienating family member and older people to do anything else.
Have a nice day, kiddo.
Boring, old and alone.
I bet you all are over 40 year old bored-a** women telling this poster what to do.
Um, don’t knock the 40 year olds. We are not old or boring.
FTR, at 20-something I didn’t know shit about sex or how to have it. At 40-ish something tho…sex is a totally different thing. Now, I am comfortable with my own body, and how to voice my needs. And I no longer worry about a guy’s ego. If you can’t do what I need in the bedroom…next.
As much as I’m not loving my under-eye wrinkles, I honestly find that the older I get, the happier I am in general.
Studies have shown the same thing – older people are happier. Getting old isn’t bad or scary, kids just think it is.
Count me in that group of people who is happier with each passing year.
A few years ago I was on the el and overheard a conversation from a girl who was telling this guy how after 25, there’s nothing more to look forward to. Then he’s like I turn 30 soon or something. I enjoyed listening to that convo.
Eh… I think this notion that “older people are happier!” is right up there with the concept that “more money equals more problems!” Uh huh. Sure. Yeah, right. In other words, it’s pure cockamamie delusional bullshit that people tell themselves so they don’t simply up and blow their fucking heads off…
As I get older I’ve learned to let go of a lot of the nonsense that made life more challenging in my younger years.
I also have a lot more money so that’s cool too.
Same. I think men (one hot crazy mess who was ranting on here the other day for example) think aging is tragic for women, and idk, maybe it is if you’re Cindy Crawford, but so far I’m finding that it’s fine. Im healthy, my husband is healthy, we look good, we have savings, we have fun… I’m not afraid of death either. Whatever.
Plus, I don’t really want to be around in 40-50 years when a lot of the US will be underwater and climate change has destroyed crops. Have fun with that, suckers! You’ll be gnawing on rats while I’m resting peacefully.
I’m with Kate and Lis on this.
I grew up a worrier. And I cared way too much about what people thought of me. Now, whatever. I don’t let stuff get to me and I could care less about what people think. I like the life I’ve created. I’m more comfortable with myself. I’m aging pretty well. I have money. Not a lot, but enough. I like my friends. And even my family.
Also like Kate, I’m not afraid of death. In fact, I’ve told the fiance on numerous occasions that I don’t want extreme measures to be taken to save my life. Pull the plug if you have to.
Off topic, but I guess not really, a friend of mine, her Grandma had a stroke on a cruise she was taking with friends. She passed away a couple days later. I mean, that’s not a horrible way to go. I don’t care for cruises, but it can happen when I’m on a beach vacation somewhere.
My grandma was shopping at the mall when the lights went out for her, just very sudden. But two nurses happened to be right there to stay with her and try to help. She had just come back from a trip to Italy, and a couple years before that she rode her bicycle across the entire US from coast to coast with a group of much younger people, riding the same distance they did each day even if it took longer, camping out, etc. She lost her husband and older son in her 40s and 50s, but kept her shit together and lived her life.
That’s kind of amazing!
Well, BGM, it stinks to be old and alone. It stinks to sense that you are becoming senile. It stinks to be old and poor and not be able to afford to do anything fun, because you don’t know if you can keep your home or where your next meal is coming from. But that isn’t the life for most 65+ people I know, including quite a few over-90s, who have full possession of their faculties and many of whom are still living with their original spouses. They all retain their interest in life. Most still drive (perhaps a tad questionable), several were playing tennis or pickle ball or handball into their mid to late 80s, all retain a keen interest in current affairs, most are more optimistic than the average person under 60 or under 40.
Thanks for the laugh. That was great.
Wow. You sound insane. And desperate.
Love your answer. Thank you!
I agree!!!
I’m going to make a YouTube video about how much I despise this blog and the way Wendy handled the treatment of this question. poor girl. Poor LW. We all feel you. :'(
The threat has been issued. The YouTube WILL be made. The mentally ill will be warned away from the Dear Wendy site. The site will wither and die, absent the eye-locking train-wreck letters, like the one Talula just posted. Wendy WILL be sorry. Very, very sorry.
Talula did get me to re-read the original posting. That LW has problems because she is living a fantasy in her own head. She and her bf aren’t at all compatible. She can’t stand either his family or his friends, but he wants to spend all of his time with them. That should tell her that his friends and family are who he is. They are his comfort zone. He may say he loves LW’s family, but he doesn’t. If he did, he would want to spend more time with them. If he was compatible with LW, he would be happy spending time with her friends. He isn’t. He has a limited comfort zone and she loathes that zone.
That LW talks about a long-term relationship with this guy is as crazy as Talula is. She doesn’t love him. She doesn’t even like him. She has built up in her mind what is essentially a fwb interaction, which could work for her, if they went light on the friend part. She’s doubling down on the friend part and refusing to see all the evidence of incompatibility. Likely she is convinced that she can totally remake the inner him, because she has the hots for the outer him.
Talula has glommed onto one thing. The only way she’ll be able to keep and control this guy long term is to keep him welded to her hip. He clearly doesn’t want that. He’s a women in one room, men in another style socializer. He could have these nights with friends without her presence and his social experience would be changed not at all.
I agree about the original poster. They are compatible for the long term. She hates his preferred social group and he wants to spend a lot of his free time with that group.
bahahahaha! When the Illuminati were blamed for the creation of holidays… that’s where I stopped. Someone stopped taking their meds.
It’s actually hilarious if you read the whole thing.
Seriously. Worth the read. I actually laughed out loud when she said she was an “indigo child”.
Ah, to be young and 24 again, when I thought that finding a passion was more important than making money.
You know what I learned, Indigo baby? It’s a lot more fun finding your passions (and doing them!) when you’ve got money in the bank, a roof over your head, and no debt. Let your boyfriend get that job. You’ll need it if you’re going to consistently drain his resources for your art. But, at least you’ll be IN LOVE, right?
Full disclosure. I had to look up indigo child.
I love how contradictory this person is… in one breath, she talks about being free AND chaining your boyfriend to your side. Quite a hilarious read this morning.
I can’t imagine the horror of having a mom who pushes you to get a job. What mother wants her son to be self-supporting.
@Talula I hope he moves to your city with his lack of job and you can financially support him while being joined at the hip.
I’ve tried several times but I have limited time to read complete and utter bullcrap. Life is so much easier when you have all of the answers isn’t it?
Wow. Crazy be crazy up in here today.
I understand your point of view. I pretty much feel the same about my partners friends and wives. I dread socialising with them. I don’t hate them, but I find it incredibly difficult to find common ground. I think that everyone, including Wendy are being harsh on you. My partner tells me I’m judging his friends harshly and compartmentalising them and perhaps I am, but doesn’t everyone do that to a certain extent? I wish I didn’t judge my partners friend but I do, and it’s probably because I feel that my prescence at their social engagements makes zero impact on the prevailing culture. I get the sense that you are experiencing the same thing.
I’m not sure why one person would expect to be able to make a significant change in the culture of an established friend group. I especially don’t understand why you would expect that to be a fairly rapid process.
This is not an insignificant interest. Unless you and your partner are going to spend a great deal of your lives going your separate ways, with incompatible friend groups, then your judging and not accepting his friend group is a problem. It is especially a problem, because these are the people he feels most comfortable and compatible with. That you feel that you cannot coexist with them without changing their culture suggests that you and your partner have significant compatibility gaps.
I’ll hang out with her. She sounds like she has her head on straight and she isn’t afraid to speak her personal truth. She sounds like the kind of woman who wants to enjoy sitting in the company of likeminded women. What a complete dismissal of her perspective. You call this “advice” but you just shat on her perspective for several paragraphs before offering the least helpful tidbit ever: organizing her own events and inviting a mixed group. That’s tangible, too bad readers have to get through all the muck of you insulting someone who came to you for advice to get to the actual advice. Goodness gracious that woman chose the wrong advice blog to ask.
Actually, Wendy’s advice was fantastic. If you love and value your boyfriend, you can’t just shit all over his friends and family. You’ve got to find a way to compromise respectfully, if for no other reason than that you love your partner. That’s what Wendy’s advice was about and I completely agree with her.
And if bf’s friend group and family aren’t like-minded people you can happily converse with, lust is likely clouding your mind and you and bf aren’t really compatible. These are both the people he was raised with and the group he chooses to hang with. They are who he is. Wendy gave good advice. This is a group which divides by gender, which apparently is how bf likes to socialize. If LW can’t get with the group as it is, she needs to MOA. They aren’t going to change to suit her and bf is unlikely to dump his friends and he can’t dump his family.
If a person just wants someone else to agree with them, then it’s best not to ask for advice at all.
Right on!!!
I would hang out with her too!
No idea how old this is, but OP, I relate and dont think youre overreacting nor have a bad attitude.
I ADORE my bf, but his friends and family are actually vile and disgusting people as well, and it makes me second guess EVERYTHING. I dont have advice, as I am on a similiar boat in the same stream, but I GET it, and you are not wrong or nor shoukd people say you have a bad attitude. They just cant relate is all.
Exactly!!!
You are actually very lucky because they include you to share their wonderful children stories. It could be worse, such as in my case where all of my boyfriend’s family just want to tear us apart. My boyfriend’s ex-sister-in-law still hangs around his family, she lied about me to his mother and her dysfunctional kids hate me. She is very tight with her former mother-in-law and my boyfriend said that for as long as I don’t get along with his brother’s ex-wife, there will be tension in his family. I never talk to that woman. She tried to break my boyfriend and I apart. She used to clean his house but since I clean it now, she is no longer needed but she is so tight with his Mom to the point his Mom tries to throw other women into my boyfriend’s life at every chance she gets. She used to ask him for rides to a younger woman’s house and he would go in with her but never told me, I learned otherwise. His Mom would invite him to her house but secretly invite other women. His Mom the other day invited him to go to an event with 800 people without me and while I was sitting next to them she said “oooh, all the pretty girls for you there”. So let me tell you that your situation is not half as bad as mine. I just got into a fight because my boyfriend just makes excuses for the dysfunctional people in his life, he said it was alcohol then he said it was the age, excuses excuses then he demanded that if I don’t like it I should say something but he yelled that out in public which humiliated me.
Sounds like you need to break up with your boyfriend.
I seem to be the only person who understand LW. No, it’s not true that you can connect with just anybody. Some people have a world that is sooo different from our world that we just can’t connect.
What I find particularly important here is for a woman to have her own world – her work, her circle of friends. Relationships come and go and if you give your life up and become a full-time gf instead, then you may at one point wale up in the morning with no husband, no friends (since all friends you had are actually his friends), nothing. In conservative circles this is actually a commonly used (and often subconscious) method of making a woman dependent on a man. If all her life is focusem on him and his friends, then what are the chances that she would leave him if he turns out to be an a-hole?
Also, checking what LW is doing on her own house and lecturing her about her activity on social media is borderline rude. They don’t seem to notice she is a grown up woman. This sounds to me like a very opressive and controlling environment.
My recommendation would be setting a limit of how much od your time you are ready to hang out with his friends ans family. Once a week is already a lot. If your boyfriend and his friends get upset, that’s their problem. Don’t let anyone emotionally blackmail you!
Dear Wendy, I’m wanted to show some support for the complainant here. I think she has made a reasonable and valiant effort at trying to blend in with the idiot wives; it is really the boyfriend who should recognise her right just to STAY AWAY and enjoy her Netflix on the couch. NO ONE should feel obliged to spend their hard-earned weekends with people they don’t connect with. If a woman does not have kids, for god’s sake let her enjoy her spa-for-one rather than having to spend a night smiling at other people’s kids. Come on admit it, even YOU don’t give a shit about other people’s kids, you just care about your own.
What a weird day to argue that I don’t care about other people’s kids. That couldn’t be further from
The truth.
Lol. I agree!
These comments are so polarized probably because you, Wendy, replied so harshly to the original poster just because she thinks her friends are awesome but her partner’s aren’t. I’m going to try to be as polite as possible so that should you reply to me my comment isn’t just dismissed as everyone else’s dissenting ones have been by you. I just want to point out that contrary to the general consensus here, family and friends don’t define a person. If that were true, then the world would be a looottt more boring than it is. Morals and values differ widely from one family member and friend to the next. And for some people, like me, if those differences are too extreme then I don’t see the point in wasting my time pretending there’s a connection when there isn’t for the sake of status quo. I think above all it’s important to value family because for the most part you’re stuck with them whether you’re in a relationship or not while ‘friends come and go’ just as easily as relationships. My partner and I are to some, totally different people, and definitely would be if you were to compare our families and friends to each other. And yet we magically share interests, views, hobbies, morals and values on a deeper level than anyone either of us has ever known (aside from our siblings). Do I then get along with his friends and family? With most of them, no. I also have no patience to waste my time trying to after having had so many fake friends in the past who screwed me over and dumped me like garbage as soon as it was convenient. I do not intend to waste my life bending over backwards for people to like me. I don’t talk to my partner’s friends anymore because we never clicked and that was that. Maybe we will in the future but I’m not going to feel guilty about it because I tried my best, my partner and I love each other and we are committed to each other like couples were in the 50’s not like they are now where the slightest hint of trouble equals moving on. We may not have our futures set in stone but I know that it’s going to take a whole lot more than that to tear us apart.
Despite Wendy’s and many others’ responses, I actually had an entirely different reaction to this ‘Over his Friends & Family” post, & can really, REALLY relate with her…
Some people are incredibly out of line. They have no sense of personal space, respect, polite/common discourse, &/or know nothing about personal boundaries. This boyfriend’s family sounds like a typical case…
Everyone’s writing about the “judgement, “disdain”, & “superiority” this woman is displaying because of what she has experienced & thus described…
I can relate 100%, to her… not 1 of you.
Its an absolute shame she has to be ganged up against simply because she is OBVIOUSLY in pain… like, it’s so easy to see…. this woman is seriously questioning her choice to spend her life with her love, and you guys are showing her zero support, & instead siding with the other “Mommies” & “kids”. ?!
Its her post. She asked for help. She’s the one in pain, reaching out… Not the mommies. Get over yourselves. I guess all the kids, moms, dads, aunts, & uncle’s are more important than her actual relationship, right? (Sarcasm)
She needs sound advice & empathetic support, not Judgement.
Funny….. you’re accusing her of being judgemental, and look at all of you… smh.
If I could offer advice to her, I’d say – stay strong and stick to your guns. I’m in a similar situation & I refuse to put myself second to his draining family & friends.
Keep your head up. At the end of the day – you have to be true to yourself. You got this. Stay true to you and what you love… even if that means leaving him…
Well done Jenny, I agree with you.
I understand the poster’s issues and I think it sounds v difficult for her, and I don’t think she is being mean.
I hope the poster gets enough time to do what makes her happy.
Best wishes, and I think Wendy’s comments are hurtful, also judgemental and dustructive on many occasions and I don’t think Wendy should be portrayed as being a person who helps others; I don’t see much compassion or understanding from her in a few of her notes.
I found this topic very interesting! I have similar issues I moved away from my family to move myself and and children in with my boyfriend and his daughter. As I come from a small town and him a big city he has childhood friends probably 20+ and I find myself overwhelmed at times with all the outings and I’ve also noticed he try’s to replace every dead beat dad when it comes to his single female friends has to attend every prom every graduation every party it does get annoying when you work all day and have your own family to come home to he also is a single dad and his dad wasn’t in his childhood like so I do see we’re the wanting to be a hero comes in but save that for your old single like make a presence when able and that doesn’t mean everyone when it comes time to make a drive to my home town it’s such a long boring drive and there’s no effort made when my family has invited us to come over…. basically I don’t think it’s mean to look for some help or suggestions but here y’all are being harsh don’t past judgement when the shoe don’t fit!!!!!
Agreed!
This post is more than two years old. I’d love a Dear Wendy Update on this! Somehow, I doubt these two are dating anymore…
That said, the advice and comments given on this thread have been pretty judgmental at times.
I got the sense from the LW that her boyfriend expects her to spend time with his friends, but isn’t willing to spend time with hers, or with her family for that matter. Maybe he’s too much of a mommy’s boy to stand up to his mom and clearly state that they need to spend time with his girlfriend’s parents over the holidays, not just his. Or maybe he doesn’t enjoy her family’s company any more than she enjoys his family’s, and isn’t willing to make an effort for her sake. If that’s the case, the relationship certainly has no future.
That said, I think it’s astonishing that people with young families have the time or the opportunity to spend that much time with their friends, pretty much every weekend by the sound of it.
I guess I’m lucky in that my husband seems to enjoy spending time with my friends and their husbands, and I can do the same for him. Many of his friends’ wives are people I don’t have much in common with, except motherhood with most. As an introvert/ambivert who needs all the me-time I can get as a busy working mom, I wouldn’t necessarily want to hang out with the wives of my husbands friends without our husbands present. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like them, just that they aren’t people I’d spend time with for my own sake. However, I do spend time with them, and enjoy myself in their company, for my husband’s sake.
When I came across this post, I wanted to jump for joy reading that other people are dealing with the same issue I have been struggling with and can relate to. Reading the comments I was shocked by all the negative comments directed towards the woman in this situation. It’s very difficult to want to please your boyfriends family when they are difficult people themselves. I personally find it disrespectful when my boyfriends family dismisses the fact that I have my own family and friends I would like to see on the weekends and almost seem to get reprimanded for it. Just because my boyfriend’s family is close and this is what is expected does not mean I need to spend my time that way. I also am working on my career and I know how hard it is to be on the go all the time.
I am an introvert at heart but I’m super socialable and fun which I’m sure confuses his friends and family when I say I want alone time or want to skip out on gatherings. I need “me” time to refresh myself for my busy work week at the office and they don’t seem to understand my feelings at all.
I would love to see what the outcome was for her since this is 5 years old, but these issues are still very fresh to me in 2019!!
I relate with the OP so much I feel like I could have written it. The replies are really shocking to me. But maybe this is a good wake up call. Going to try to really think about the feedback and comments (but not too hard y’all are ripping her a new one).
I get that being mad about the conversation sounds tacky. The rest I can relate to too much.
Eeeek. Oh well. Constructive criticism is better than being head in the clouds.
Wow…shocked Wendy gives relationship advice. She is not empathetic at all.
Also I dont understand why someone cant talk about not wanting kids – people who want kids talk about it all the time and are constantly judgemental of those who don’t.
The woman wrote in about how she hates everyone, their kids, their conversation, is totally judgmental of all her bf’s friends and family….and yet, here you are FIVE YEARS LATER defending her.
You know their relationship fizzled out when he realized she was a cold bitch who couldn’t play nice with any of his friends or family. That happened years ago. Move on. And if you hate all of your partner’s friends and family…you are not a match. MOA.
In Anna’s defense, if she were looking at the site on her phone, the dates don’t show up so she’d have no idea the column was five years old. She likely googled the topic “I hate spending time with my boyfriend’s family” and found the column and, of course, hated the advice because she took it personally and it wasn’t what she wanted to hear and she blamed the messenger (me). I’m “not empathetic at all” because I confirmed the bad things about herself that she likely suspects on some level or that people have told her.
Gotcha. Good to know.
Lol. Getting along with people is a basic, essential adult skill. If you hate, as this LW does, your partner’s friends and family this much then find a new partner. Especially is said partner wants a relationship with his friends and family.
Wendy’s advice was solid.
I disagree with Wendy and many people posting here. The letter writer should dump her boyfriend. Why spend and waste the REST OF HER LIFE being bored and disgusted by his friends and disfunctional family? I’d find a new guy who likes hanging out with me and my family. And the new guy should come from a healthy and happy family. She shouldn’t waste another minute of her life with his crowd of losers.
LOL.
AGREED!!!
I wish we had gotten an update to this letter.
Why has the recent comments section gone from 5 to 3? It used to show the last 5 comments. What’s the purpose of the change?
Hi, just fyi- if you ever have a question about the site you can email me directly and I’m happy to answer. In answer to this one, my ad network – the organization that manages the ads on my site – requested that I reduce the number of comments, which I did a week ago. Since then, traffic has increased slightly as has ad revenue. You may or may not realize that most websites don’t make much money anymore, especially with the advent of instagram and similar platforms (that compete for traffic as well as advertisers’ budgets). In order to stay even minimally profitable — which I have to be since I invest many hours a week of my life into this thing and I ain’t workin’ for free – I have to constantly evaluate and tweak minor parts of the site – ad layout, content layout, kinds of content, font size, all kinds of stuff. It would be safe to assume that any tweaks you ever notice on the site are with either user-ability, traffic, and/or revenue in mind. Keeping readers happy while making the site as profitable as possible is always a balancing act. I forgo some things – like sponsored posts, collapsible video pop-up ads (which my ad network is always pushing), and various other things – that would increase revenue but, I think, turn off readers. Reducing the comments in the sidebar – which most websites don’t even have – seemed like a pretty innocuous little tweak and I hope it’s not proving too inconvenient for readers!
Everyone is entitled to say what they feel. I have 5 children but would never sit there and talk to someone who hasn’t about them or someone who has. As for the hating kids thing……. I love my children more than anything in the world, they range from a 6 month old baby to 19 years and there my best friends, however I can’t stand being around other people’s kids. They just get in the way and I never see my friends when they have there kids. There just annoying. It’s ok to feel like this a lot of people do. Kids are just little adults and I don’t really like people in general. Only a select few. That doesn’t mean I think I’m better than anyone else it means I’m just hard to please and she shouldn’t have to be around people that bore her. I’ve travelled the world, been in a film with a film star, flown a plane, was in the navy and so much more but now I just clean houses and look after my kids. So these boring women could have more about them if you just give them chance maybe. If you don’t want to then don’t. It’s totally up to you, she wanted advice not a telling off. Maybe try and lead the conversation off children and see if they have more about them. If they haven’t then don’t spend time with them. I personally wouldn’t but for all you know they could have had an amazing life before having children and have been more like you. If they are just boring mums that do nothing then don’t see them if you don’t want to.
Wtf! Your advice is so disappointing you should be called Windy (blow me). Wendy you make me laugh. You’re like the cherubic angel on a cloud! You just dissed the hell out of someone looking for your advice who actually took the time to read your garbage. (I am a journalist making an article on horrific journalist advice).
This poor girl is fed the hell up with pretending and has been doing it to keep the peace.
Not everyone is so desperate for an audience or attention. Some people just like to mingle, chill and have a good time without all the drama. APPALLINGLY, Wendy you enjoy, “faking it till you make it.” When you don’t then you make up excuses of why you do enjoy it. I am guessing so you can go on giving advice to people about how great you are. To anyone who writes Wendy for advice (I will call her “Windy”) bless your heart and screw anyone who is rude or makes you feel uncomfortable (life is TOO short). Please stop putting yourself in gross situations and avoid getting offended.
Ooh, please share the link to your article. I’m sure it will be well-researched and well-written. I love your line about how I’m like a cherubic angel on a cloud. I’m thinking it might be time to change my tagline, actually…
I can totali relate to you and I am in fact in the same situation. How did you deal with it in the end ?
I can relate to you. I was in a very similar situation. When I used to get together with my boyfriend’s family and his friends, I always felt excluded from conversations. I started thinking they did not like me. I kind of stopped little by little attending to gatherings. And every time and increasingly created problems with my partner, as his family and friends kept asking for me to attend. We were engaged, together for 8 years, living together for the last 4. In the end we separated. I felt his family didnt like me, as i was usually ignored while being there, sometimes they made rude comments. And as I separated from them, then surely their comments went onto my partner, because they did not want him with me. It came to the point of him saying I separated him from them. Which I never ever asked for that, but I guess a situation like this puts a lot of pressure to the person in the middle who wants to spend time with both parties. Needless to say: we are no longer together. He left mostly because of his family. So, although I relate to you, and I believe in what you said. I do not believe this is your fault. However, for your relationship to continue in good standing, you need to ask yourself if even though these group of people are not specifically to your liking, is this something you can live with, and try to become part of? or is this something you can’t stand? or do you see your husband changing his group of friends?
If these group is a very important part of your partners life, you MUST cherish it in order to be with him. This does not make you “the bad one” in this story, Im sure his friends could try to show some interest in who you are as well. But you have more reasons to put an effort into this than they do. Think if you can live with this. and how you can make it better, maybe try to become closer with at least one of the wives, sometimes hanging one on one allows to create better rapport than when in a group. Also, if you decide you will no be able to adapt tho this, realize that it may mean ending your marriage in the future unless he suddenly changes all his friends, which is very unlikely to happen. I wish you the best. I was in your shoes, and I know it does not feel good. But you and only you know how you want your life to be, and what things you are willing to deal with and which ones you can’t, and how big of a sacrifice it means to you, to deal with these people to make your partner happy. Is it worth it? and Are you able to do it without feeling bitter? I hope this helps. Sorry for all the judgmental people you encountered here. It’s easy to criticize others when they have not been in tour shoes. Best wishes!!
Some people just don’t get a long. All that peace and love crap think positively, doesn’t work for people who are socially anxious being forced into a situation,
Just to avoid upsetting people. Her boyfriend needs to step up and address her issues to his family, if she means anything to him. I wouldn’t wanna be forced into a women’s unite programmes, I generally can’t stand women, I don’t like my kids parents, I am SICK of talking about kids too. I love my son but MAN I am another person as well as a mum.
I totally understand you. I couldn’t stand my exes parents, they were too loud, rude and lacked intelligence so were quite ignorant people. Their options made me cringe, but were quick to tell me how I should act in my life so I can stop being melodramatic…. ITS CALLED DEPRESSION fml.
You lost me at “Meanwhile, I have an amazing family and cool and interesting friends.”
Whoever responded to this girl kind of sounds like they are one of the girls she’s talking about (a pathetic house wife) and is a salty bitch who hates their boring mom life lol do not take this persons advice
Yawn.