“My Sister-in-Law Keeps Overstaying Her Welcome”
Shortly after my SIL moved in, we put our 1-year-old daughter in daycare. As is often the case, she kept coming home with colds. After about six months she developed serious pneumonia and was hospitalized for five days. After this, my wife and I decided our daughter would need to stay home for at least another year, so my wife transitioned to part-time employment and my SIL filled in all the childcare gaps. It wasn’t smooth, but after a year we put our daughter back in daycare and she was fine.
After another 6 to 9 months (I can’t remember exactly how long), my SIL was still living with us and it was creating problems in my marriage. My wife asked her to start looking for an apartment. After three months, she announced that she found an apartment and would move out. She chose to move out on my birthday when my mother and sister were visiting from out of town, but whatever. But then my beloved SIL insisted that she had to get back some shelves that she paid for, but I installed our office, and she had to have them on that day. She made a big deal of it, I got supper pissed, ripped them out, and left them on the porch for her. I didn’t see or talk to her for eight years.
My wife couldn’t not talk to her sister, so about two years after the shelf incident she called her up, apologized, accepted all the blame, and they continued their relationship. After eight years have passed, I agreed to my family for dinner with my SIL. My wife told me I can’t bring up the shelf incident because my SIL will just refuse to discuss it. Either that or she’ll just drop off the face of the earth again, which is okay with me, but would be crushing to my wife. So I played along and everyone pretended the last eight years didn’t happen which is effing crazy but whatever.
About a year ago, my SIL asked my wife if she could stay with us for a couple of days (she now lives across the country in NYC with all the other nutjobs), which turned into a week. Then, a few months ago she was speaking to our 7-year-old son and he invited her to stay with us, which she did for 2-3 days. Yesterday, she called my wife and asked if she could stay a day because she has an emergency meeting in our city and I think she is trying to save money on hotels. My wife is caught between the two of us. I want to tell my SIL to off off, but I can’t because of what it would do to my wife. Do I just keep bending over? — Over my SIL
If this is what you call “bending over,” then yes, keep doing it… and then some. I mean, one dinner after eight years of zero contact, and then two (short) visits in the span of year? In my book, that’s not really “bending over” at all; that’s called being a family member.
Look, I appreciate that your SIL pissed you off nine years ago when she overstayed her welcome in your home, created problems in your marriage, and then demanded you give back some shelves she purchased — and that you installed! — after crashing in your home for three years, I do. But I also see how you could take some responsibility for some of the bad blood between you. If you didn’t want your SIL staying in your home for three years, you shouldn’t have let her. And if you didn’t want to return the shelves to her or you didn’t want to return them THAT DAY, you should have said, “No,” rather them ripping them out of your walls and dumping them on her porch and not speaking to her for eight years. She’s your wife’s sister and your children’s aunt. It’s time for you to grow up and get over it.
Your SIL isn’t asking to stay at your house indefinitely again. She’s asking to crash for one night while she’s in town for a meeting. Is she trying to save on a hotel bill? Probably! Hotels are pricey and why would someone want to pay $200 or whatever for a room for a night when she could stay at her sister’s house and get to spend time with family she hardly sees?
You still have unresolved issues with your SIL and I get that. At this point, they probably aren’t ever going to be resolved. She doesn’t want to apologize and neither do you. Your wife has asked you not to bring up the shelf incident, so don’t. But what you can do is move on already. Nine years have passed now. If you want to ensure your SIL never crosses your boundaries again, do what you should have done over ten years ago when you allowed her to move in with you, and actually set some damn boundaries. Implement a houseguest rule — no more than three visits a year for no more than four nights each visit, for example (or whatever you and your wife agree on) and then tell your wife to share that with her sister. Then, when she asks to crash at your house because she’s going to be in town, you and your wife and your SIL have a clear understanding of what the limits are.
I know you would love to never see this woman again, but she’s your wife’s sister and your wife wants – and deserves to have — a relationship with her, which means you can’t avoid her. Things will be much, much more pleasant if you can just accept that now and make efforts to not be a jerk. You can’t control your SIL’s behavior, but you can control you own and you can control the way you react to her and you can control the boundaries you set.
And if you truly cannot stand the idea of sharing space with your SIL more than once every eight years, you might want to consider booking a guys’ weekend away or a trip to visit an out-of-town friend or family member when your SIL comes to town.
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If you have a relationship/dating question I can help answer, you can send me your letters at [email protected].
wow! LW the only “nut job” here is you! you sound like a total asshole!
Right? Dude, it’s a little hostile to call NYers nutjobs, particular when your advice columnist is one…
Listen to Wendy. If my husband were still this pissed about something that happened nearly a decade ago, it would stress me out. I doubt your wife is unaffected by the anger you still have about this.
I feel for you, LW, but Wendy is right. My sister’s in-laws aren’t toxic, but they are major pains in the butt. She makes herself scarce when they visit (all of a sudden works gets really busy) and when they visit the in-laws in their city, my sister always leaves after a couple of days and her husband and daughter stay as long as they want. It saves everyone’s sanity. But I do sympathize – the shelf thing would have pissed me off to no end.
Ruh-roh snarkymarc, haha. I had a weird feeling Wendy would pick this up to respond to
Oh, I just posted in the forums on this. I agree with Wendy’s advice, but I think it might take some weight off his shoulders to realize he really doesn’t have to like his SIL. You two just don’t get along, and you might never get along – it’s OK. It’s easier to make an effort if you lower your expectations to “trying to be civil”, rather than hoping for a real apology, reconciliation, and friendship.
WWS.
I think you’re being a huge baby about this. I mean, I get it, her past behavior bothered you, but it’s been 8 years. Your SIL was in college when she lived with you- she’s grown up and matured since then. She probably doesn’t even remember doing half the stuff she did that bothered you so much!
Just drop it.
I seriously don’t understand how family doesn’t speak to each other for 8 years because of some fucking shelves. How petty.
(sorry snarkymarc- you’re a really nice commenter, this is just a bazar and/or stupid pattern of behavior)
After reading this site for a lot of years there have been plenty of horror family stories. This one is not one of them. Basically you and your SIL clash and are not likely to ever be close. The good news is she lives on the opposite coast from you and only visits rarely for short periods of time. If she only spends 5 days with you on an annual basis that leaves you 360 SIL free days so is her staying with you for one night really going to impact your life so horribly?
WWS. The whole situation is ridiculous. You didn’t speak to her for 8 YEARS. You, your wife, and your SIL all wasted 8 years not having a relationship. Life is short, like that was pretty much 10% of your life where you didn’t have positive in-law relationships. Some people aren’t so lucky to have their family around. Appreciate what you have, suck it up, and find a way to get along with her. I mean I cannot imagine not speaking to my siblings, or in-laws, for more than a week. You were mad at her over some shelves and moving on your birthday (grow up). Life is way too short for that crap.
And yes, sorry for being harsh but everyones behavior in this situation is just absurd.
I thought something horrific had happened, apparently your birthday is so sacred that it causes you to not talk to your sister in-law for 8 years. You sound kind of nuts to me, and your wife sounds like a saint to put up with you. I get people have problems with in-laws, but this is full on baby mode. I don’t even feel bad for you for those three years since you wanted her to stay longer so you could use her has a baby sitter. Time to let it go, there is absolutely no need to talk with her about the shelves, because you know you are only going to argue about it, not really just talk about it.
It also really sucks that your wife feels like she can’t even talk to you anymore about her sister, because you hate her so much. That’s why you hear pain in her voice. She probably agrees with the things you are saying about her sister just to get you to stop talking about her. You need to be careful, because you could be driving a big wedge between you and your wife that she probably doesn’t want to talk to you about.
WWS!
How old are you people? Just wondering, because it sounds like you’re in junior high.
I loved Wendy’s advice and I just read the forum in it’s entirety. I agree with what everyone else was saying. Suck it up. Put on your big boy pants. And be there for your wife.
Most people have “horror” in-law stories of some sort.
Dude. You gotta get over it. You just do. I mean, this is just part of dealing with family. They piss you off, you piss them off, and then, because you’re stuck wih each other, you let it go and pretend like the last eight years didn’t happen because to continue to fight about it is kind of fucking crazy. 😉
In-laws are tricky because they’re not family but they are family but they’re not but you have to deal with them forever like they’re family because they are family even though they don’t feel like they are family because they’re not really family except that they are, you know what I mean? I am going to just assume this SIL really is a terrible human being who uses and abuses people and all of that but you can’t make your wife cut off her relationship with her sister. So I’d say so long as she’s not harming your family, let her come and make yourself busy those days if you can’t stand to see her.
p.s. I love the pic on this piece, and I loved Aunt Jackie!
p.p.s. I’m waiting to see if “in NYC with all the other nutjobs” really pisses some people off!
this reminds of a letter a looong time ago about wanting to cut out family because of someone accidentally throwing out a box of collected shot glasses… anyone remember that one?
ahh yes that was the one!
I’m with the ‘move on’ crowd, but I understand how you feel. I’m a bit of a grudge holder as well, but my tactic is to repeat ‘They dont mean it the way I feel it’ to myself. I mean that just because it feels like a huge personal slight, doesn’t mean they person meant to make me feel this way, They are more likely just lazy/thoughtless/a bit selfish.
You dont have to be best friends with your SIL, but it sounds like your kids and wife might want to have a relationship with her. I think you should let them. Plan to be away the weekends she is visiting, or offer to do the cooking or whatever, so you have less time sitting around and talking/fuming.
Family is hard to navigate! Do what works for you, but don’t cut her off because of this.
I love “They don’t mean it the way I feel it.” That phrase comes up whenever we have a disagreement and it helps so much – it accepts the feelings but allows you to set them aside so you can address the actual cause of the disagreement. I’m trying to incorporate it into the rest of my life so I can stop wasting energy on being pissed about things that were certainly not meant to come out the way they do.
WWS. Especially pay attention to: “You can’t control your SIL’s behavior, but you can control you own and you can control the way you react to her and you can control the boundaries you set.”
This. So much this. Our family’s issues are on my side (since my horrible in-laws have written EVERYONE off), and this is what we come back to. You will never change another person, but you can control your responses so you know that no matter what happens, you acted right. Please believe that you will take such a load off of your wife’s shoulders by adjusting your perspective – you could save more than one relationship here.
I get that you don’t like your sister-in-law, but to carry around this kind of grudge for so many years must be exhausting both to you and your wife who is stuck in the middle of this. She overstayed her welcome, caused problems, and I’m sure the shelf thing, while silly to focus on now, was the pinpoint of your disdain for her, so you’re clinging to it like a grudge barge, but you really need to let it go.
I come from a family of grudge holders, and I learned it’s best to fake it and keep the peace than it is to cling to your hate all for the sake of being “right”. My own mother-in-law did some pretty awful things to me during and after i got engaged to her son. Things far worse than overstaying her welcome and causing a scene with shelves, and I’ve learned over time to just smile in her presence, pretend she’s some semi-stranger that I’m vaguely interested in, drink alcohol if needed and minimize my interactions with her, and we’re all happier for it. Because as much as this woman drives me to want to move to a deserted island just to get away from her, she’s still my husband’s mom and I don’t want to take that from him.
So, I say keep your distance from your sister-in-law, stop unloading on your wife, and focus your energy on more positive things than an almost decades-long grudge.
Get over it, and make nice, please! She is family and with family often you have to put on the happy face. Family doesn’t go away. Listen, my own PARENTS were very difficult at times. But after my period of healthy rebellion which really freaked them out (as it does) I was nice, kept my visits to 3 days 2-3x per year and kept the peace. And there was a lot of reason for bad blood but we moved on. It was best for all involved. Sometimes you have to suck it up. Now if your SIL was a drug addict who stole from you for example, or a brother who was in and out of jail, or someone who brought really questionable dangerous people into your home, or a bad influence on your children I would understand a more extreme reaction of no contact, etc, but if it is just that your personalities do not jibe, or you have past disagreements, I would say that you need to let it go. Please just let it go.
If you were so unhappy with your SIL staying with you, why on earth did you install her shelves in your house in the first place?
Accept some responsibility for your part in this. You obviously haven’t.
I read this in the forums and I honestly didn’t know how to respond. I am capable of holding grudges (coincidentally, my record is 8 years) and I am not a fan of having someone in your life that you can’t stand. So I can sympathize with the LW. But, she is family and yes, I think you could have handled the situation differently and gotten a different outcome. But, it is what it is now, so if I were you, I’d take the plan-an-out-of-town-trip or visit-friends route at this point. Defintely set some boundaries so everyone understands exaclty how long the stay will be (and so you know how long to plan your trip for). I’ve done this and it works.
The setting boundaries thing is key. If you and your wife can agree on boundaries for overnight houseguests, then you’ll be able to feel like you have some control over how much she visits. You won’t be “bending over” when she stays with you–you’ll be ALLOWING her to visit because it falls within the guidelines of your agreement with your wife.
snarkymarc: I’m sorry everybody is unloading on you. While I agree with Wendy’s advice, I get that nobody can drive you more crazy than family. I can hardly stand my own sister, so I have a lot of sympathy for you. But still, be the bigger person! If you do, you’ll know that from here on out, any tension or conflict between you and SIL won’t be your fault or yours to resolve.
Agreed!
@mf & TECH: Thanks. Yeah, I tend to go off the deep end when one of my SIL’s visits is coming. It never really occurred to me that I was the one being the asshole, so it was good to hear it yesterday in the forum. And yes, the NYC comment was a joke with emodicon and all, but I’ve never know true New Yorkers to be so easily offended.
Update: When I arrived home from work yesterday my SIL is in the kitchen all by herself. My wife and son had to pick our daughter from cross country practice so it is just me and her. She gives me a hug hello (no chest to breast touching) and we chat amicably for a couple of minutes. I then go to change into to more casual clothes. As I’m undressing the perfect idea strikes me – I should strip down completely, walk buck naked through the kitchen, say “I just need to get some boxers out of the dryer”, walk into the garage, get the boxers, and walk back through the kitchen and say “got them”, and return to the bedroom like nothing. She would be totally baffled and wonder “was he hitting on me?” or “have they turned into nudist?” or “are they now the hippie free love type”. If she told my wife I’d say I was just messin with her mind. I think that would have permanently put an end to her occaissonal visits. But no, I just chugged three beers, watched some TV, chatted just a bit to seem somewhat friendly, and went to bed.
WWS. If you want to really be an adult, then move on. Get over your anger. Is there some deep down issue between your SIL and you that was never discussed? Shelves are shelves. They rot, They get thrown away. Relationships are invaluable, and putting your wife in the middle of something so childish shows zero respect for her and the relationship with her sister.
He did not have to install them or remove them if he didn’t want to. Just because someone tries to take advantage of you doesn’t mean you are stuck between letting them or blowing up all over the place.
As for the wife apologizing, Its not a husbands job to be pissed off at his wife for the choices she makes in her relationships. Yes it can hurt seeing your loved one being taken advantage of. But if that happened, it was the wife who wanted it that way. She’s allowed to be in charge of her own interactions with people. She can apologize if she damn well feels like it. If she only apologized on behalf of herself and left husband out of it then the letter writer is choosing to take that on as a personal slight. He can do that but the attitude is probably going to shut down communication and make his wife respond defensively.
I agree that there is no profit in discussing it with the SIL and he and his wife should discuss how he feels. But if discussing means she has to agree and adopt his opinion or he talks in circles about it for another decade he is probably going to end up shooting himself in the foot.
I already commented on this in the forum like 12 times, but I would just like to add that it’s completely fine to be super busy every time she’s in town. I mean I’m guessing you have hobbies, and errands to run, and football games you HAVE to watch in your man cave. I do stuff like that when I don’t like people. My Dad mysteriously disappears every time there’s too many people at their house (not because he hates them, but sometimes he just needs some space, even during parties). If she’s only in town for one night just have dinner (and drinks, because duh!) with friends that night.
I haven’t experienced this with Colin yet because I still want to suck his face everyday, but with Ethan I used to secretly love it when he hung out with friends I didn’t have a lot in common with because it was a great excuse for me to watch shitty reality shows judgment free in my room.
Did I just make this about me? Well good, then I’ll continue. This weekend I decided I was going to quit drinking during the week because I’ve become my Dad in that I get home from work everyday and have a beer without even thinking about it. Like I get home, take off my pants, and head to the fridge. I don’t think it’s an unhealthy amount of booze, I just don’t like that I do it subconsciously and without intention. If I’m going to be drinking a beer I want to be doing it on purpose if that makes sense. ANYWAY, I failed on Monday but last night I was home all night and didn’t have a beer! It was glorious. It’s probably in my head but I think my skin looks less dehydrated today.
I’m on that same “no drinking during the week” plan, or at least, I am in spirit because I have failed this week (it took me TWO HOURS to drive home from work yesterday, mmkay, I needed some wine). And also I have plans with people this week that involve getting a drink (at the very least).
I still consider this a win though, because at least this kind of drinking is deliberate, & not just a “Welp, I’m a tired old man now who needs some booze at the end of a work day” thing (which yeah, is also a habit I’m trying to break).
I can see that you feel taken advantage of, LW. Three years is a long time to have someone in your home, however, you must give credit where credit is due. She didn’t only take up space while she was there. Your SIL didn’t have to fill in the child-care gap for you while your daughter’s immune system got stronger, but she did. Her help made it possible for your child to stay home an extra year so she could go to school and be healthy, not dangerously sick. How much is that important contribution worth to you? Is it worth two scheduled visits a year, during which you promise not to flounce around the house and make your wife miserable because her sister is there?
If there are planned family visits where your SIL comes to stay specifically to enjoy her sister and nephews and nieces (and you can plan to be busy elsewhere), then saying No to having her other times seems perfectly reasonable, given that this is such a tinderbox for you. She’s a big girl and can pay for a hotel like everyone else who travels for business or pleasure. If she’s in your area, maybe you can offer to watch the kids overnight so your wife and her sister can enjoy a grown-up getaway at said hotel..
Your SIL isn’t going anywhere, so it behooves you to work objectively (and lovingly with your wife) to find a system that gives everyone some of what they want.
Ok, I’ll bite. I’m a native New Yorker. So IDGAF about your problems since you insulted an entire demographic to which I belong. Sounds like your SIL is possibly just reacting to your stellar personality.
I agree with you, but I do believe he actually put a smiley face at the end of that sentence in the forum post indicating a joke. A joke in poor taste, though.
Gauging from the timespans you described, you must be over the age of 30. I suggest you simply:
Get.
Over.
It.
You are describing complete non-issues, perhaps reflect on other *actual* familial hardships others endure… put it it all in perspective.
If the SIL has an emergency meeting for work, her employer should put her up in a hotel so I don’t understand why she needs to stay with the LW.
Yeah, I’m sure those problems in your marriage were ALL caused by your SIL. I’m sure they had nothing whatsoever to do with your grudge-holding, scorekeeping, and anger management issues. Nothing. At. All.
I feel sorry for your wife.
Okay, clearly there is much, MUCH more to this story. Filling in the blanks? The LW? Is FUCKING BATSHIT CRAZY NUTS…
WWS.
My dad has some lifelong feud with my aunt, who’s very close to my mom, and thank goodness she’s never had to stay with us long-term. Granted my aunt can overstep her boundaries with guilting, so I’m glad my dad does speak up when it gets ridiculous (he could be nicer about it). But I just wanted to say that as their kid I’m grateful they made an effort to keep this animosity from me and my sister growing up, so I could have my own relationship with her and form my own opinion of her. So, something to think about around the kiddos…
There’s some other strained relationships with my boyfriend and our parents, but that works just fine because we agreed on some boundaries and don’t smack talk anyone. Unless your SIL is clearly taking advantage of your wife and you feel you need to stand up for her, follow Wendy’s advice.
Normally I would say play nice and move on… Which you should do… But I will say, your SIL sounds like a brat (8 years ago) and even though “bad blood” is behind y’all and you are on speaking terms… Why would she want to stay there? Seriously? That makes no sense to me. Money aside, that makes no sense. Why would I want to spend a week or several days with family members who at one point didn’t speak to me for 8 years because of something that happened the last time I stayed. I also think that’s ridic that she overstayed a visit after the 8 year deal happened. I don’t hold grudges but she sounds annoying, and if I were you, I would play nice and just be out of the house while she is there.
For future reference, if you’re going to write in for advice about someone you think is super inconsiderate, don’t insult the city that the advice columnist lives in. If you are always trying to find ways to make digs at people like that, then I can kind of see why you and your SIL didn’t get along.
I’m not really sure why you felt the need to talk about an incident that had happened eight years prior and had since been resolved without you. Especially one involving shelves.
I think you also need to consider why your options are telling someone to fuck off and “bending over.” Sometimes being a mature adult means that you can’t just run around insulting everyone you feel like. It doesn’t make you weak or submissive. It just means that you grew out of the phase where you throw tantrums when you don’t like someone.
what does LW stand for?
LW is letter writer. MOA stands for move on already. DW stands for Dear Wendy, and OP stands for original poster. These are all common abbreviations that you might see on this site
Oh I didn’t know the OP one. Thanks, Hobo!
I have the same problem from what I can see the comments are from women that stick together l am like you and would love to see her go mine even is sleeping in my bed and we have the guest room