DW Community Catch-up Thread
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I think it’s interesting to look at the subconscious gendered expectations we put on our kids reading this. Like why do girls not necessarily get gross and lack hygiene in the teen years? It’s not due to genes, they’re just raised differently from birth. Girls shouldn’t be gross and dirty and not brush their teeth. Boys aren’t innately inept at sheets or showering, they’re just given different expectations. That ‘oh well sounds like a teenage boy’ attitude. It’s fascinating watching it play out in real time.
I’m not having a go at anyone btw, especially since it’s not a boy you’ve raised from the get go JD. it’s just interesting watching those dynamics play out. We really are set up from birth.
Well I only spoke from having time with a growing teen boy and girl. There is a big difference from my experience. He has never been told he doesn’t have to have good hygiene, he just doesn’t care, where as she cared a lot about how she presented herself. Just because we have all these new labels doesn’t mean that men and women are inherently different and do have many characteristics that are considered more female and more male, not every single person but a large amount. I assure you, with two Air Force parents he was expected and still is, to be clean, tidy, etc. He just recently reached an age, as MANY teens do, where he doesn’t do what he is told as easily.
I also think that girls, with the expectation to be pretty and such care more about appearance at a younger age. He could care less if someone thinks he is attractive or not where as the girl cared from a rather young age as her peers were doing that. I remember the time between elementary school and middle school when it changed and she started caring about her appearance. I also remember when she shaved off her eyebrows and drew them on with an actual Sharpie but that’s a whole other Maury.I don’t know, I think girls can be very gross too. I was a slob with piles of clothes everywhere and some gross habits I won’t name here, but I grew out of it. There were girls in my class who had poor hygiene and didn’t smell good. And I definitely remember bingeing on junk food while hanging out with friends, for example.
I guess I am lucky to never experience a bad smelling or messy girl even when I was that age. At worst just piles of clothes from changing from outfit to outfit.
And I have read a ton of articles about boys hormones causing a good amount of smell. He just one day started to smell really bad even with multiple showers and such. Then one day it just passed. We read up about it.
None of this explains 140 chicken nuggets however. I am still cracking up over that.
Do you have kids, Ange? I think you might be surprised how innate gender is and how little upbringing has to do with gender, actually.
Agree Wendy. But that count the girl would’ve been into cars and my son would be far more masculine, he’s much more what is considered feminine although frankly that is not the proper word, I just have been up since 3am and really can’t come up with the word I feel best describes it.
I have known teen girls who smell or have bad habits. A lot of times kids reach early teenage hood and don’t know about deodorant, stinky feet, etc if they haven’t been taught to take care of their body properly.
I think some parents honestly just avoid talking to their kids about anything “awkward.” Why? Who knows. They assume they get all the education they need at school.
And yeah, teens are also stubborn as hell. They do ignore or do the opposite of what they are asked to do.
I’m not saying girls don’t get gross or anything, just the way it’s spoken about. Like ‘my kids weren’t gross but I had all girls’ that sort of thing. Or that it’s ‘typical’ of teenage boys to leave the room filthy when clearly it’s not, but it’s something we kind of expect around boys and not so much girls. Little things that play out into later. When I was a kid going to family events the men would sit around while the women cleaned up, all these little things through words and actions that we’re not consciously imprinting on kids but they soak up. That’s the only point I’m making.
Also, just because a kid’s parents tell them they both have to be clean doesn’t mean they get that messaging from society. If boys are framed as playing with cars and sports and stuff, those are not really “clean” activities. You get dirty if you work on actual cars. You sweat with sports. When girls are implied to do things like dress up or use makeup, that implies keeping yourself looking nice.
Certainly, at school, girls would be more likely to get teased (at least in my experience) for not looking nice than boys are. My best friend wore the same type of sneakers that her brother did in middle school (decorated like a baseball). She got teased by girls who wore “prettier” shoes. He didn’t get teased for them.
Unless a child never sees other children, TV, ads, or people aside from their parents, then they can get messages about gender even if those are not being reinforced by or explicitly stated by their parents. My mom wore oversized sweatshirts and jeans all the time. I certainly didn’t grow up thinking that was what I was supposed to look like when I started middle school.
WWS. My nephew loves trucks. LOVES THEM. He runs around all day pushing his trucks around. My sister and BIL definitely didn’t encourage “boy” type play. They’re both equal rights, feminist, etc. They could care less about gender norms. It’s pretty funny to see this kid be a “boys boy.” 100% innate. Nobody in my fam is overtly masculine or even a little bit alpha. This kid is a dude though.
EDT: My cousin’s kids are super interesting. The oldest, a boy, likes typical boy things but is super sensitive. The middle, a girl, likes typical girl things but can throw down. She’s tough as nails. The youngest, a boy, is extremely feminine in speech, mannerisms and the toys he likes. Everyone is actually really surprised the husband does so well with the little one because he is more “macho.” Thank goodness he doesn’t project that onto his son.
Ok, so you don’t have kids then, right, ange? And you’re not a teacher who’s around kids a lot? I’m not trying to pick on you but have you considered that sometimes the things parents say about their kids (specifically in relation to their gender) is formed by their actual experiences and observations more societal expectations?
For example, when I chaperone school field trips or I volunteer at school lunch and recess, I get to see 150 kids of the same age and observe their behavior. There is absolutely a difference in the ways boys play and relate to each other and behave and express themselves vs how the girls play and relate to each other, etc. there are exceptions, of course, and there’s a spectrum of behavior traits, but there’s most definitely a feminine end of the spectrum and a masculine end, and at 5, 6, 7 years old, most of the kids are not trying to meet societal expectations of how the should behave; their behavior is much more organic than that. And I promise There’s a different experience between, say, chaperoning a group of 5 7-year-old boys on a field trip vs a group of 5 7-year-old girls, and anyone who has extensive experience with kids, can tell you immediately what the difference is, and it’s not related to kids watching women in their families wash dishes at a holiday get-togethers (that kind of gender messaging shows up in people’s behavior and identity later).
