Gun ownership
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I’m not disagreeing with you LisforLeslie. I’m just adding data to back up your point.
Also I think the reason that trope is so successful in SciFi is because of its inherent truth.
LisforLeslie, I’m not sure you understood my point (or at least, you are not addressing it). Robbery/home invasions and attacks/attempted muggings/carjackings are very possible, whereas mass shootings involving you are extremely unlikely.
However: Guns are protection against robbery/home invasions and attacks/attempted muggings/carjackings. Which are way more common—and FAR more easy to end, perhaps without actually having to fire. Simply having and brandishing a gun while the other guy has a bat or a knife gives you the upper hand—especially for a person who is weaker than their assailant. For a woman, a gun levels the playing field against a larger, stronger man.
Criminals are not geniuses, nor are they trained gun experts. Part of conceal carry classes is learning what is safe/legal, and what is not. Taking that information seriously is the gun owner’s responsibility.
If your position is simply that every citizen is incompetent in gun use (except cops, soldiers, hired bodyguards, bank security, etc.; although I’m not sure why they are able to safely handle guns, while people in other professions cannot?), I guess there is no argument that will sway you.
I guess that my point was that it doesn’t matter if people are doing a rational risk assessment. The way we look we all look at risk and safety (not just gun owners) is driven by emotion and personal values and one’s own philosophical underpinnings as much as objective risk.
Let me put it this way-the risk of accidental gun discharge/accidents is very very low in objective measures. There are similar behaviors that are just as risky (buying a very slightly less safe car, living far away from your job so you’re more likely to be in a car accident) that increase the risk just as much. Yet, I don’t think that anyone would say to leave your spouse over these slightly increased dangers. But for a lot of people, voluntarily carrying around a weapon of death seems to be inviting harm in a way that they find acceptable. And I feel kind of the same way.
I think that for some men they see danger and their obligation to protect their families from such in a fundamentally different ways that’s tied to their value system and isn’t really resolvable by objective risk.
To give an example, BOF and I had a terrible fight about having a front door that needs a key from the outside. It’s a terrible fire hazard but some people do it because it means that you can’t break the glass next to the door and open it. I showed her the stats, but for her the idea of someone coming in and attacking us was much much scarier than getting trapped inside in a fire. She felt that she could navigate the fire issues whereas a murderer breaking in was outside her control. We eventually compromised by not having the front door require a key and getting an alarm system with a motion detector. But it was a pretty ugly fight and she wasn’t receptive to statistics about it.
@Northern – no I understood your point completely. Mass shootings represent a significantly small fraction of all crime and a small percentage of shooting incidents overall. My comment re: good guy with a gun was in reference to the original question.
The truth remains that households with guns have a higher risk of someone getting shot. Just like households with electricity have a higher risk of someone getting electrocuted than those without. Key difference is that guns were designed specifically designed to hurt people. Electricity was adapted to do that.
The number of people who successfully protect themselves with a gun is, unfortunately, largely anecdotal as that information isn’t tracked accurately.
@Fyodor -yeah. Sometimes logic goes out the window when it comes to specific issues. Not just guns as you’ve noted. I’m not against guns but I find many of the arguments for guns to be lacking. Specifically guns as protection require that gun to be loaded and at the ready. Which if I understand my gun owning friends, is not the recommended state for guns. The safest gun is a gun that is not loaded. In a locked box. Separate from ammunition. The time required to get the gun, get the ammo, load the gun – while it doesn’t take an excessive amount of time, also requires… time. So in a home, in a school, in any setting where you have young people – you either have to manage the time component or a significantly higher risk element.
Oh, I don’t think she’ll change his mind with the stats. Not at all. She needs to be able to clearly articulate a case, though, particularly if she’s putting her foot down and saying she’ll leave him; it’s her or the gun. She will need to explain why she feels so strongly about it.
So, there’s a lot of extraneous stuff going in here and you just want to know what to do about your husband wanting a gun.
I’m not a gun person. I don’t get it. But, my family is full of vets; my brother (a vet) is a cop and my husband’s dad has given us two guns. I’ve learned to live with them being around.
But – here’s the thing – we all respect the fuck out of the fact that a gun can kill people. We’re not John Wayne and this ain’t TV. So, they (we?) take precautions.
We don’t have kids, but ours are locked away. My brother (cop) keeps his safely, safely secured when he’s at home with his kids around. I believe my other in-laws got rid of theirs because of the kids, or st least made them unavailable. And we’re all pro-gun control.
My advice: You have a very young child. You don’t have a real need for a gun. You should tell your husband “Let’s table this until all of our kids are old enough to understand the implications of a gun and what it can do.” When that is something y’all can discuss. And then, depending on where the debate is at, you can reconvene.
But you can’t have a cavalier attitude about guns around toddlers, or any kids, actually. That’s a non-starter. If you have to have one, there has to be a rigorous, no exceptions, every single time process to make sure that they are locked up well away from children, preferably unloaded, unless job reasons make that unfeasible.
Miss MJ, I’m glad you brought up the point about respecting guns and knowing that its purpose is to kill. I think that’s missing from a lot of the gun debates we read on-line.
I grew up in a family of hunters. My dad. My grandpa. Uncles. Male cousins. It was/is their way of life. But at the same time, my dad was diligent about his shotguns and stressing to us kids how dangerous they were. He cleaned them in front of us, always kept them unloaded, taught us how to hold them, told us how dangerous they were, told us never to touch them unless he was present. And we never did. Fuck. I’m still scared of them and refuse to shoot one. Only one of my sisters hunted with my dad.
Anyway, I think there are ways to own guns with children in the house and gun education is a key ingredient. As well as the safety measures everyone else already covered.
Mind you, I’m not advocating this LW to let her husband own a gun. I guess I just wanted to share my story about responsible gun ownership.
FWIW, I’m all in for better gun control.
As an aside, my niece went deer hunting with her dad. We ate what she shot on her birthday. She was pretty proud of that, but also never wants to go hunting again or any time soon at the very least. She took gun safety courses and all that.
I don’t think that would work for me. This guy isn’t talking about keeping a gun for hunting or practice, he wants to carry it around loaded. Now, not in 10 years.
Tweens and teens understand that guns kill, but… they’re also depressed, anxious, and suicidal at rates we’ve never seen before.
ETA and even if your kid is happy and well-adjusted, guns are fun and cool, right? What’s going to stop a savvy kid from getting that gun out, maybe with his friends, and playing with it when you’re not around? My dad taught me to drive before I was old enough for a permit or license, and I would drive my friends around in the spare station wagon after school at 15. He would have flipped his shit if he knew.
That’s why I said I’m not advocating for this LW to let her husband get a gun. I have a host of other feelings about needing a gun for protection and lots of people covered that.
Anyway, from my experience and my family’s experience, I don’t think it’s inherently wrong to own a gun and keep it at home if you have children. I understand others feel differently.
