Covid Support Thread
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And like I said, I’ve seen in news stories that a handful of them have changed their minds, and good for them. But that’s not who you’re talking about. You’re talking about people you think the democratic candidate needs to campaign to. Those people are beyond help and are going to hell.
Total B.S Kate. There wasn’t an election in 2017, so you have no idea how these people would have voted. I do know that Dems won big in 2018 and that we usually have difficulty mobilizing our voters in an off-year election so a lot of folks changed their minds between 2016 and 2018. i also know that an historic number of Democratic women were elected to Congress, including my new Congresswoman. I know that in current polls, Biden beats Trump by 8 – 10% and that Trump’s approval rating is sinking. So don’t try to sell me on the idea that everyone who voted Trump in 2016 is still with him.
And I did not say these people who switched Obama to Trump needed to be promised a job to change their vote. They need to be provided hope and offered dignity. You know, what Obama did? And no, they are not racist if they voted for Obama. That’s your big lie.
And I am not defending votes for Trump. i am explaining why so many voters either stayed home or switched from voting for Obama to voting for Trump. But you only want to believe that this happens because the people are racist.
They you keep doing your big lie. You point to racist Republicans and equate them to Dems who voted for Trump, after voting for Obama twice. NOT THE SAME GROUP AT ALL. Really!
You want to win in 2020, or you want to indulge your purist anger?
Again. Those democratic switchers are a small proportion of Trump’s voters, who decided they were all right with racism and sexual assault. Some of them maybe didn’t realize? And they would have figured it out and decided they couldn’t tolerate it by about… Charlottesville? 2017? If they still need to be campaigned to in order to reject the disgusting vile garbage coming out of the White House, they are *bad people* and they are in fact racist.
And it doesn’t matter that I am talking about a very small slice of Trump’s pie. Take away a puny 100,000 vote slice of the pie in three close pivotal state elections and he isn’t president.
You persist in talking about the bulk of the Trump pie. In terms of whether or not he is re-elected, it literally doesn’t matter what his hard-core 35% do. They aren’t close to being enough for him to win. They are as they have always been and they will definitely vote Trump or virtually any other candidate with an R after their name. You can let them totally get under your skin and lose in 2020 or you can just fucking ignore them as a lost cause who will never vote for Biden or any other Dem. They are not where elections, other than Republican primaries, are decided.
If we want to win, we must focus on the swing voters between 2008/12 and 2016. Those who chose to stay home. Those who made protest votes for third party candidates. And yes, those who voted for Trumpa after twice voting for Obama. It may give you great psychic pleasure to just write them off as worthless, racist, sexist, pieces of shit, who knowingly voted to destroy democracy for improved personal job prospects, but that a) is a path to defeat in 2020 and b)likely not true or at least not as starkly true as you want to make it. They are people. People can be complicated, confused, as angry as you are at the moment, as sad and defeated as BGM and I are feeling. The bottom line is we can’t afford to lose in 2020. If that means ignoring Satan’s past errors to get his vote, then we welcome his conversion to right-thinking.
Smug superiority that since we saw what was coming, anyone who missed it is a bigoted, selfish, uncaring, or totally clueless piece of shit, really isn’t a way to win minds and votes.
And for the love of God, stop demonizing politically like-minded individuals who are less strident than yourself. I don’t know what you want from me. I am not going to join in the stupidity of condemning swing voters. That is pure, self-defeating idiocy.
I told you I don’t think a candidate should ignore them. But I personally believe if they haven’t condemned Trump by now, they’re not a swing voter and they’re racist and/or sexist and want nothing to do with them. That applies equally to these democratic switchers and the base.
Here’s the deal Kate: almost all voters need to be campaigned to. Hillary learned that lesson when she campaigned virtually not at all in WI, MI, and MN. Every voter needs to understand that you understand their needs.
And no, I am not, never have suggested campaigning to Trump’s base. Actually, that is sort of what Hillary was persuaded to do. Her campaign persuaded her to ignore ‘safe’ states like the upper Midwest and to an extent even PA and spend effort on red states, where they convinced themselves she stood a chance, to roll up a big win and claim a mandate.
You point to the worst of the worst and say I support pitching a campaign toward them. i do not believe and never said any such thing. My focus is people who voted for Obama. The last great Democratic coalition, which handily won the popular vote and electoral vote twice with absolute majorities. That’s very rare of late.
You are arguing against a strawman and trying to make that strawman me.
You’re defending these racists, Ron.
If they voted for Trump, they were ok with racism.
If they are thinking about voting for him again, they’re definitely racist. If they can be persuaded to vote for Biden, great, that’s a vote for democracy. I welcome it. But they’re still racist,
Kate: You keep saying you want no part of them, because they haven’t changed their minds by now. There is zero evidence that large numbers of them haven’t changed their minds and a ton of evidence that they have. We won in 2018. We are ahead today. Things are changing. Trump is scared.
And Biden is not proof of a continuation of 400 years of white male hegemony, sexism and misogyny. In fact, he was dead in the water until he was rescued by black voters. Funny source of racism: the preponderance of black voters.
And, yes, BGM, I have no doubt the DNC wanted Biden. They didn’t pick him. They did breath a huge sigh of relief when he beat Bernie. Bernie would do much better with the DNC if he declared himself to be an actual Democrat. While the DNC cheated for Clinton, as I’ve said before, I really can’t strongly blame the National Democratic Party to prefer that their nominee actually self-identify as a Democrat. Yes, he caucuses with Senate Democrats, but has always insisted upon the distinction that he is not a Democrat. That seems ample reason for the party organization to not be thrilled with his potential victory.
Again. If they saw the light by now, great, they put their country ahead of their racism. Good for them! Those who haven’t by now are disgusting.
Anyone who voted for Trump in 2016 is racist or at least ok with racism.
I have NEVER defended racism or racists. You keep saying “if they haven’t condemned Trump by now”… how in hell can you possibly know if they’ve condemned him or not. Joe Blow’s change of political preference isn’t shouted in the media. However, the media is shouting about the decline in Trump’s support. Where do you suppose that change might be coming from?
Oh, I didn’t want Sanders this time around.
NEWSFLASH: I actually wanted somebody under fucking 70.
I was team Pete. Young. Fresh. Gay. And actually able to win a debate.
But really —- ANYBODY other than some doddering old fool with yet another money-grubbing, clueless dolt of a son making millions off his father’s political career would have been better. Sigh…
PS — I’m tired of Boomers. They’ve run everything pretty much my entire adult life. Only they’ve run everything into the fucking ground. Retire already. Haven’t you destroyed the planet enough?!
