At odds about church
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Ron
Many agnostics/atheists*do* christen their kids to accomodate their practicing spouses. It doesn’t sound like she hates religion or has some strong objection, it’s just not for her. I’m not saying that she should have to participate, but it’s not an unusual accomodation.
I also don’t think that what Janelle’s comments qualify as “among the very nastiest I have read on this site” For one thing, Janelle and others have suggested that I am wrong before. Me! Which is far worse. Also, that lady who kept suggesting she wanted BGM [something not cool] was probably also somewhat worse.
@Janelle or if you’re against those traditions, you don’t, and loving family members will be supportive. And the world keeps spinning.
My very Catholic in-laws found a way to be supportive of me and my husband’s marriage even though we didn’t get married in a church/by a priest. At one point my MIL said (very hyperbolically) that she’d be at our wedding even if we got married at a Starbucks.
Not #1 nasty, but right up there. And the husband is not practicing. He’s been to about half a dozen holiday services in the time he has been with LW and likely does that to please his mother’s desire to ‘keep up appearances’. LW made her views on the matter of religion well known prior to marriage and her husband agreed. Now he wants to trash that agreement to please his mom.
Fyodor, can you please stop bringing that up? I deleted like 5 of her statements plus a couple of yours repeating what she said, because it was hate speech.
Janelle, would you have felt the same if it was a pagan ritual? Or they wanted her to go to mosque and declare her dedication to Allah? Would you have (being a Christian) if your husband insisted? I bet 1,000% not. I’m really sick and tired of Christians in the US thinking they are the default religion and that atheists should just go along with what they want in a secular way. “Traditions” are not a reason to make people do things they do not believe in, particularly when it involves oaths, man.
I’m an atheist, full stop. I would absolutely have not attended, and wouldn’t want my child raised with religion (though if they came to it in their own way, would never have an issue with them pursuing it). I make it abundantly clear when I date that this is a deal breaker for me. She made what I think are very fair allowances (he can take the kid to church, they can plan this for the baby, etc) without going against her own beliefs. He has a history of steamrolling her.
Sorry-I really didn’t understand that the policy wasn’t to reference it again-I wasn’t trying to antagonize anyone by bringing it up.
I don’t disagree with Janelle’s general premise sometimes you should participate in something your spouse cares about even when you don’t.
Sometimes that means participating in a momentous religious ceremony when you yourself are not religious, sometimes it means participating in your spouse’s Superbowl party when you don’t like sports. If you love someone, sometimes you do stuff for them, and they should do stuff for you on occasion.
But in the context of this particular LW, its clear so much more, frankly abusive, stuff is going on that whether or not she should be compelled to go is besides the point.
Let’s just not repeat it. I know BGM said he didn’t care, but other people did. Stuff like that is always a no-go, while regular name-calling and shit is called out as needed by the community.
Yea I don’t think she needed to go. You don’t make fake oaths. It demeans the process to anyone who cares and goes against her beliefs and no one should be make to declare something they are against.
He was a total a-hole about how he went about this. Without knowing what you discussed before it seems like you didn’t talk about this enough and didn’t come to a firm choice on how to handle your children and religion. It’s easy enough before kids but after 2 people of different faiths really need to be on the same page and your communication here was awful. Other issues stated after the first post really indicate that this relationship cannot work without major changes on his part that he doesn’t seem willing to make so make sure to protect yourself and your child. And in this relationship or others make sure to really talk about how you plan to raise your kids. If something is deal breaker then don’t be afraid to determine that a relationship isn’t for you.
FWIW I’m Christian and would never expect someone to be forced to participate in something like this and I’m actually kind of appalled at how he and your MIL steamrolled you. This was sneaky and manipulative and he is using his religion to justify his bad behavior (sadly an age old tradition) but it doesn’t so don’t fall for it.
For the record, I have no intention of standing in the way of introducing the baby to religion, specifically my husband’s religion, but I did ask that he be taught about other religions too, to see that there are choices, that no one religion is the “right” one, and that he can make a choice on his own when he’s old enough to decide. My husband agreed (this is before we got married). Throughout our relationship, I have been to my husband’s church before (twice, I think) when he explained that it was important to him, and they are pretty all inclusive/teach about other religions/lax on the regulations/marry same sex couples type place, but they’re still not for me. Yesterday, they still wanted me to take vows to “raise [my] child through God to teach him that Jesus Christ is his lord and the one true savior” and I just couldn’t stand up there and say that truthfully. Again, there was no christening or baptism. I offered to go and sit in the audience (before I got sick) but was told that “would cause gossip. It’s fine though, you don’t have to go”.
In the end, I took him at his word that I didn’t have to go, which he said repeatedly, and ended up using the “I have an ovarian tumor and a cold” card because I wasn’t feeling well enough to be social. Like I said, I failed a test I didn’t know I was taking. I took him at his word, all the while he was hoping I’d “step up” and go.
When we talked about it last night I told him that I felt manipulated and that the situation was unfair, that I had been set up to fail. I asked him why. I told him that I had trusted that he was telling me the truth, and if he had wanted me to go that badly, I wished he would have told me. I told him that I’m not a mind reader, and I cannot solve issues that I don’t know about. He said “yeah, I guess…but you should have just known”
I had asked him several times on Friday night to talk to me about the ceremony after I got the church flyer, since it seemed different from what I understood it to be. He just kept saying “you don’t have to go” as an answer. So maybe yeah, this is all my fault, but then how come I feel so uneasy and manipulated? How come I feel so guilted into things?
Because you’re being manipulated. And gaslighted. And not just by your husband, but by his mother, too. This is not good. This is really serious. This is divorce-level fucked-upness.
