makeout regret
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Just curious, for those who think it wasn’t assault. If the exact same level of consent happened for sex, would it be rape? She didn’t say no, she let it happen, she was unsure, she didn’t know what to do. He didn’t hear a clear no and just kept going. Rape or no?
It wasn’t sex. It wasn’t rape. I’m not getting into scenarios that didn’t happen.
Society has so many rules and laws and protections, and still, many people don’t follow them. That means we all, male and female, have to look out for our own safety to avoid getting hurt. It’s not our FAULT if we do get hurt, but there’s so much we can do to avoid it beyond expecting everyone around us to follow a set of rules. If I don’t stop and look both ways before crossing the street in my town, I will probably get hit by someone speeding. It’s not my fault, it’s theirs, I was in a crosswalk, I didn’t ask to get hit, but unfortunately I can’t count on anyone to follow the speed limit and stop at the crosswalks.
I am with Kate here. This is an unfortunate kiss to be sure. But sexual assault? I simply don’t see it. The timeline is too wonky and as Kate already picked apart the language — the uses of we — I don’t feel the need to go there.
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Now had he just randomly grabbed her on the dancefloor and spun her around and starting kissing her… THAT would so be assault. And how.
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But as it reads here… I don’t see it.
Yeah, I’ve been following along all day and have sort of gone back and forth on this, but ultimately, she needs to learn how to set boundaries and speak up for herself. The more I think about the situation specifically and these situations in general, I wonder, is there a point where the need for consent is overkill? I don’t mean that as, consent shouldn’t be a thing. But, can you imagine a society where everyone is asking everyone if it’s ok to kiss one another and losing that romantic spontaneity? Yes, consent is important, but I do think context is also a factor. This is a complex issue and there is not a clear-cut, black and white answer.
Calling this assault waters down the actual definition so much as to negate it completely and that does a lot more harm than an unfortunate makeout session in a club. This didn’t happen in a library it happened on a dance floor where people go to hook up. Don’t want to deal with that situation? Don’t go there or learn how to handle yourself.
A few weeks ago I almost DID get killed because some poor schmoe stopped at the crosswalk to let me cross, and I didn’t because I wasn’t born yesterday and could see the other asshole speeding up behind him. THAT nitwit burned rubber and skidded around to the RIGHT of the stopped car and almost ran me and my dog over even though we weren’t in the damn road. I reported it on the town web page and suggested maybe the cops do speed traps or something. The cops responded that it’s a state highway and thus I should contact the state.
If I’d started walking, I’d absolutely be dead. It would absolutely be the 2nd driver’s fault, not mine, but I prevented my own death by anticipating the guy was not looking out for my safety.
Juliecatherine just raised a point I myself almost posted — but chickened out on, as I didn’t want it taken the wrong way… But I agree — to raise this to the level of sexual assault strikes me as a very bad idea as it only gives ammo to those who refuse to take sexual assaults seriously.
My point is that consent is the same for rape and for sexual assault. The same arguments (she didn’t say no, he’s not a mindreader) are used in both situations. The concept of consent doesn’t change just because it’s a lesser offense. And letting it slide on assault opens the door for letting it slide on rape, since the consent is exactly analogousin both cases. Just as awkward to obtain, just as fraught with social pressure, just as misunderstood by both sexes, and just as clearly a crime when it isn’t obtained.
So, in your thinking RR, do you or your husband obtain explicit consent anytime you kiss or engage in sexual activity? I am truly curious.
I mean, according to the strict letter of the people who write the rules of consent, it is on the spectrum of assault. But by that same letter of the law, every guy I’ve dated is a sexual assailant, and that just isn’t true.
I think the guy is somewhat at fault. She wasn’t responding to him. He was doing things and she didn’t pull away but she also didn’t move closer, didn’t turn to him on her own, and doesn’t seem to have indicated she would like more contact. In my mind, if someone didn’t turn to face me it wouldn’t mean to me that I should turn them around and kiss them. It would indicate that they weren’t wanting anything more and were apprehensive. I think he was picking up on her inexperience and taking advantage of it. Most of us can tell when someone looks apprehensive and we can tell when someone looks uncomfortable and we can tell when they look lost. She could have pulled away but he could have found someone who encouraged his attention.
I think that she is probably better off not going to clubs because they aren’t a good place for her at this time. I also think she would benefit from talking to a counselor at her school who can help her process what happened and give her the tools to set her own boundaries and enforce those boundaries.
