makeout regret
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And to answer Skyblossom about how I’d feel about my daughter coming to me and telling me a guy grabbed her and kissed her and she didn’t want it, I’d ask the about the context. There are so many scenarios in which I would be pretty enraged about this — a professor or boss or anyone with any kind of authority over her — kissing her. A date whom she told to stop. Some stranger on the street as she was walking home from the subway. But a guy in a club whom she’d been dancing with and whom she didn’t tell to stop, whom she didn’t pull away from when he grabbed her hand, whom she continued to kiss because she was inexperienced and didn’t know what else to do? I’d be like, “Ok, we need to talk then. I have failed you as a parent.” I would not immediately cry “sexual assault.”
And another big difference is that no child of mine would EVER speak to me about a person of another race like this LW does. They would know they’d get their asses handed to them on a platter if I ever, ever heard racist language from them. If my daughter came home and shared the exact same scenario that this LW does, I would be far more concerned about the racism than the kiss. And, again, I would be really, really ashamed by the naiveté and would blame myself as a parent for failing my child in teaching basic social rules.
Cleopatra Jones: your posts here are really on point here. This really strikes me as a bizarre overreation on the part of the LW because she (gasp!) kissed a non-white.
I used to go to clubs all the damn time back in the 90’s. You’d be on the dance floor, getting your groove on. Some guy would start dancing with you and you’d do one of two things. You’d either stay and dance, or you’d just dance away. If he grabbed at you – you’d either do the “no no” sign with your index finger, push him off, elbow him or walk the fuck away, depending on how aggressive he was.
And back then, we danced mostly face to face. Today I turn on the MTV (I’m old now so I have to put The in front of it) and they’re all groin to ass. My assumption is that they were dancing together – because that’s what she said. I did not interpret it as she was standing at the edge of the dance floor and he grabbed her from behind, spun her around and shoved his face onto her face.
She needs to own her body and her decisions. I’ve no doubt that she was raised to be a good, nice girl, deferential to the men in her life. Doesn’t change my position.
And yes @Cleo & @Wendy. Thinking someone is ugly because they are not your race…that shit is uuuuuuggggllllyyyy. Inside ugly. That for me puts it at a whole other level. I have a sneaking suspicion that if said guy looked like Ansel Elgort – she’d have given him her real number and would be squeeeing all the way home.
I think a lot of posters have been convinced by their college administration and Title IX folks that yes-means-yes it the law of the land. In most states it absolutely is not. In fact, in many states we counted it a big step forward when the standard moved to no-means-no, in place of ‘did he have a weapon? Did you struggle?’ ‘Did you scream or call out for help? Did you know the guy?’ Legal standards are evolving, but in most places not as far as to yes-means-yes.
I think if LW went to the police/DA in most jurisdictions, the only crime they would see is underage drinking. In most places, she couldn’t legally be in the club below age 21 and patrons would be within bounds to assume she was at least that old.
Was what the guy did totally cool? I think not, but don’t think it wide of the mark and it certainly wasn’t sexual assault. Once you leave campus, you should assume that the laws of the land apply, not made up campus rules.
If she told her tale in the exact words she used here, I’m not sure there is a case to be made, even in a yes-means-yes state. I think CA just became a yes-means-yes state.
