Updates: “Wary of the Class Flirt” Responds
It’s time again for “Dear Wendy Updates,” a feature where people I’ve given advice to in the past let us know whether they followed the advice and how they’re doing now. Today, we hear from “Wary of the Class Flirt” who was upset when she found some emails her husband exchanged with a particularly flirty woman he reconnected with at his high school reunion. Keep reading to see whether all is forgiven.
I am sorry to say that I have stopped reading your threads because, while I understand people writing in for advice as I did, I do not agree with all the character-bashing that your readers engage in. People are looking for answers and it IS possible to comment on people’s posts without calling them names and making them feel horrible.
But…to give you an update, we are doing wonderful! We have now been married for eight months. We are very happy together and my husband is completely transparent with me. He understands that he caused us to have a trust issue, and he is 100% willing to do whatever it takes to prove himself to be trustworthy once again. We have come a long way and, pretty soon, it will only be a faint memory.
I will say, however, that I have had to put in the work in order to find true forgiveness in my heart towards him. I realized my inability to forgive was only hurting myself, and I determined that I wanted to live a happy life. My faith in God also helped me to forgive.
Sounds good!
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If you’re someone I’ve given advice to in the past, I’d love to hear from you, too. Email me at [email protected] with a link to the original post, and let me know whether you followed the advice and how you’re doing now.
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So that was the worst update ever. What about the reunion! What about the pantless flirt?? This is definitely a case of lalalala if I say there’s no problems there’s no problems lalalala. Ramona would never put up with this shit.
I feel like updates tend to fall in 4 camps:
1. Nice. (“Thanks, you guys rock, all better”)
2. Angry. (“Screw everyone and their moms, you suck, and I’m never reading DW again!”)
3. Denial. (“Lalalalalala – I can’t hear you – lalalalala,” as you say iwanna)
4. Awesome. (“[Insert something honest and wise they’ve realized after allowing themselves the time to really dig into the issues and taking to heart all the comments]”)
Yeah it’s weird. Even if they’re very lalalala (like today) I feel like they’re still great if they provide a lot of detail. Actually some of the lalalala ones are my favorites. I am jealous of people that can live with that much denial in their lives. Do you know how peaceful that must be? Just like nope marriage is great! We’ve made it a SOLID 8 months. Suck on that readers! Nothing can tear us apart – our love is the real deal – pantless flirts be damned!
My personal favorite is “I’m proud to report…”
Haha, a SOLID 8 months….
The 8 months comment killed me! “Life has been perfect for 8 WHOLE MONTHS!”
For real. A person can do 8 months on autopilot easily. No critical thinking necessary.
even kim k would have done 8 months if our TV seasons were structured differently…
hahaha!
So this one is a 2/3 combo then.
Wendy, I love your response. It made me smile.
I love when Wendy knows how far gone an LW is , & is just like, “Great!” no matter what the update says, haha
Agreed!
A little off topic but not really: I need a “Team Ramona, the Pantless Wino” shirt.
Anyone think that AP actually IS Ramona? Posing as AP?
busted!
NaNoWriMo is just days away. I may revive my Ramona fanfic for the challenge!
Yay NaNo! I’m doing it too – second draft of my sci-fi novel that I’ve been putting off all summer (“Oh, I’ll save that for NaNo…”)
Also, tangent, I had a DW-ish dream last night. In the dream I found out that my mom (whom I have boundary issues with) had been lurking on DW and posing as a commenter, and reading all the stuff I post here. Dream-KKZ LOST HER SHIT and slapped her mother for invading her safe space. Real-KKZ woke up very very angry.
So, does anyone else have dreams where they get crazy-violent? I’m super sucky at confrontation in real life – like, I can’t confront people with anger no matter how much they pissed me off, I get pissed off in my own private way but then come confrontation time, I turn all passive and wet-noodley and “Just so you know, not to make a big deal or anything, but what you did/said upset me.” I think all my rage must get bottled up and acted out in my dreams or something.
My violent dreams usually involve me being attacked first— like in a home invasion situation, or the like. And then I wyle out on the attacker. In one dream I remember, there was a man like about to attack my mom & I, & my mom was oblivious, so I went after the guy with a knife (that I somehow had…) & slit his throat (???)
I had a dream a few months ago where I was in a house and I saw this guy sneaking up on my sister to… kill…her…? I don’t know, it was bad. So I grabbed a giant knife and rammed it right between his ribs and then stood there holding it in. And twisted it. Until he fell on the ground.
Glad I am not the only weirdly dream-violent person. I think I have been watching too much Breaking Bad.
I’ve never had violent dreams involving me being the violent one. I’ve had dreams where I am attacked. But mostly my dreams are about random people making sexual advances that make me both uncomfortable and turned on. Or my dreams involve me being late and thinking about all the tasks I need to do. Or where all my teeth fall out. Or where my 4 year old nephew dies. I have that dream a lot and I see his sweet face and it ALWAYS causes me to wake up in a panic.
I have “losing teeth” dreams all the time. It’s related to being a control freak 🙂
Oh the teeth dreams! Man they freak me out!
I’m so glad other people have the teeth dreams. I have them constantly, once I was just saying my name and my teeth were crumbling and forming a pool of dust on my boobs. Sooo horrifying.
I don’t often have dreams where I’m being attacked, but I do have a lot of dreams about being chased. Often in a confined space like a house or a school, and my only concern in those dreams is outsmarting/outhiding whatever it is that’s pursuing me. I have loose/missing teeth dreams too, pregnancy dreams, had some pretty messed up ones around my wedding… my dream superpower appears to be telekinesis.
As far as being attacked, I have had dreams about the bullies who used to tease me in high school in which I went all violent-rage on them, and they just kept laughing at me.
My violent dreams freak me the F out though, because I’m soooo nonviolent in real life, it scares me to see evidence of the primal part of my brain lashing out like that. It’s empowering and terrifying in the same moment.
i have lots of spy dreams- where i am the spy, saving the world or whatever. i dont think i ever lose.
now what does THAT mean?? haha
I have these dreams…where all my aggression, that I am keeping in check in a VERY SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE FASHION (haha) comes pouring out in a very violent manner. I am a smartass in real life, but not violent in any way. And I am horrible at confrontation. We were taught growing up to play nice, keep your mouth shut, don’t make a scene, etc. I think it’s actually healthy to “get it out” this way.
No violent dreams here – but I have had a Dear Wendy dream before. Wendy invited all of us to come to her Emmy party (at the actual emmy’s.. she had her own table at the ceremony for her readers), and pretty much everyone showed up in these fabulous dresses, and we got to drink wine and hob-nob with celebrities all night. I was bummed when I woke up.
I like that dream. Especially the part about fabulous dresses and also wine.
Yeah, I read through most of the comments on the original post, and I didn’t really see much name calling or character bashing. As far as internet forums go, I think we’re a pretty reasonable bunch. If you didn’t want honest, no-nonsense comments from strangers, then don’t write into Dear Wendy.
But glad to hear things are going well without our help!
Agreed although I wonder if she was more of a regular reader and came across other threads where some of that went on. There have been spells on DW where things got ugly and then cooled down again (wedding threads come to mind!). But that’s maybe a reach. Just looking for an explanation. I agree that DW community is generally very supportive. And far and above what you see in the comments section of most sites.
Yeah, I went back too & I have no clue what she is talking about. We all gave her pretty nuanced advice, even it some of it wasn’t what she wanted to hear.
Yeah, I just went back and read the original thread and did not get the overwhelming character bashing/name calling. I thought everyone was actually pretty nice!
Yeh I don’t think there’s much name-calling on DW.
Yea the only name calling was the LW almost calling that girl fat.
Which honestly you should be called out for. I mean I could see me doing it in my head in a fit of immature behavior. But to actually type it? Deserves some calling out.
Well, oldie called her a real piece of work…
BGM was getting a bit testy, but I don’t think he has ever been nice to a LW.
I think she was upset at people suggesting she should not have married if she did not have trust, and basically questioning her logic (“why do you think he won’t create a second fake account but you think he will cheat?) and (in her perception) trying to tell her how things were.
I get that. I think she was really fresh and raw about her situation. I know when I was insecure about MY marriage still, I would have been very very touchy about anyone suggesting there was a damn thing off about me checking his accounts or having his passwords. Now I just don’t care if people think something is off, it’s really not my business what other people think of my situation ya know? I mean I get why people say that, and I’m like whatever, that’s nice.
When one feels fragile and insecure within their relationship, anything even slightly critical can come off as bashing, in my experience anyway.
I don’t think DW folks are bashers. I think sometimes they (we) read things into situations that aren’t there (well duh, we have only a letter/comment to go on!) and obviously our own individual experiences and personal feelings/beliefs colour our reactions to various LWs and commenters. But I don’t think anyone sits here purposefully being cruel to people or hating on people. I think most of us just like to gab and talk situations.
I’m still raw about a situation in the last few months where I feel a person in my extended social circle is being given a social license to operate as a predator because no one wants to confront him bluntly or “spread gossip” because he has a pity excuse. I’ve blocked this person entirely (although he literally chases me when he sees me in public. No I’m not even fucking kidding) on FB, phone, email, etc but still hear of his adventures “through the grapevine” and it just pisses me off nothing is being done about him. There’s unfortunately nothing I CAN do and that sucks I hate that feeling, and I’m trying to let it go, and I am successful most days. But some days not. However, since I’m still raw about it, I avoid situations where people criticize or question my feelings on it. If I was not avoiding those situations, I’d be just as prickly as this LW. Everything feels filled with mal-intent when we’re insecure and sensitive (even saying that, I am pretty sure LW would find it offensive to be called insecure and sensitive, even if there’s no moral or value judgement in that!).
About your last paragraph: Captain Awkward did a great post on predators + social circles a couple of days ago, including links to several resources. I think you’re awesome for standing your ground on this. One can hope that your social circle will factor in your concerns the next time they’re forced to do a mental inventory of their enabling relations with the predator.
Wow, so I apparently missed how the original letter thread got all crazy and everyone was all worked up. So what happened? Is he going to the reunion? Are you “allowed” to come? Or did you book a vacation for that weekend? I’m fascinated.
Yeah, I agree. I still have unanswered questions. Did he go to the second reunion? If he went, did the LW go with him? Or did the LW conveniently go out of town that weekend like she was thinking of?
I guess the answers to those questions don’t really matter — because she has completely forgiven him!
gag me.
Where’s the update?!
I STILL don’t understand why someone would marry someone he/she does not trust? Why??!! I get staying in a marriage once trust has been broken and working on restoring it, but why didn’t she just continue dating him? Why actually make MORE of a commitment?
Oh oh oh I know this one!
You’re thinking that you’re the problem for not trusting, thinking it’s a you issue since you’ve always had trust issues, and that he is doing his part to behave correctly and now it’s your job to do your part and trust him and stop punishing him. You start to think YOU are the one in the wrong for still having that niggling feeling. So you ignore it, or hope it will go away, or are of the mind that you’ll ALWAYS have that feeling but you still want to build a life with him.
“I really want to believe him and have this be true” basically.
It’s sad. 🙁
Yeah, she basically says this, too, in that last paragraph (“…I have had to put in the work in order to find true forgiveness in my heart towards him. I realized my inability to forgive was only hurting myself, and I determined that I wanted to live a happy life. My faith in God also helped me to forgive.”)
TRANSLATION: “It’s my fault we weren’t happy! I need to forgive him aka bury my head in the sand. Also, God.”
Yeah, the whole part of “I had to do the work to forgive him” really irked me too. Plus, when you end something say “My faith in God helped me to forgive” it’s basically saying “Don’t question me on this!”
Sorry, I went there with the whole God thing.
I felt like the way it was tacked onto the end of the response was a little odd, but honestly faith does help a lot of people practice forgiveness in their daily lives. So it’s not that weird to me.
I mean I do understand the concept of it being hard to forgive and needing to let go, but 8 months? That’s really a short time. In my experience and from what I’ve read and heard of others, it ebbs and flows. You know what made me chill the fuck out and forgive? Years and years and YEARS of Appropriate Behaviour. When my husband does dumb shit now and is out too late and I don’t have any way to get ahold of him, my first thought is no longer “he’s with some girl.” It doesn’t even occur to me. I had such a hard time with the concept of “forgive” because I couldn’t figure out how I was supposed to forgive him for doing something he consciously chose to do. I mean he made a choice ya know? It wasn’t like he slipped and his penis lodged into a random waiting vaginal area. It actually took a lot of thinking, I mean a TON of thinking and working it out mentally out loud with some good solid feminist friends for me to explain it to myself in a way that made sense for why it was okay for me to stop being mad, and to forgive. See I knew I didn’t want to leave, I knew I wanted to be with him for always, but working out why to stop being angry? That was hard. Yes it was.
But I NEVER could have done it without, again, years and years and years and years of Appropriate Behaviour as the foundation. There are still times when I trip and flare a bit of paranoia and need reassurance. But it passes in a bit now, not lingering for months like it used to.
Ok, I actually have a different take on this. I’m not sure if it applies to this LW, but I think in any relationship if one person is wronged but chooses to forgive the other, they have to work to forgive them. Forgiveness does not come easy to everyone, especially if they are choosing to forgive someone for a serious transgression. Some people may be able to say “I forgive you” and forget about it, but it’s not that easy for others. They have to make a real decision to forgive that person and then never bring it up again. And it is HARD. So while I don’t think the LW was “at fault” here for anything, I understand what she means by saying that while her husband was trying to do everything to rectify the situation, she herself had to do some work by honestly forgiving them. Otherwise they wouldn’t stand a chance.
I agree, in general, forgiveness is essential for a long term relationship. In this case, though, it seemed the big issues of the original letter were glossed over.
Exactly— I agree with the CONCEPT of working-towards-forgiveness, but I just can’t take that concept seriously in this LW’s situation 😐
Yeah I agree, I think it was less about forgiveness and more like if I pretend this was all my fault maybe I can make it better! But, I think her over all tone also makes it hard to believe. It’s like she still isn’t willing to see what the actual problem is.
I agree with you. I worked hard at forgiveness when it was needed in our relationship. I’m actually surprised people are “annoyed” by that part of the update.
Oh shit I didn’t see you had responded. I had my comment written out, and then had to go to a meeting, so I came back and pressed submit without refreshing to see if there were any new comments. So I guess you’d disagree with my post, haha.
I guess I just feel like if you have to work at forgiveness – don’t do it. It isn’t work YOU as the wronged party should be putting in. I could have forgiven Ethan I guess, had I put more work into it, but fuck it. He wasn’t willing to put the work in so I sure as shit wasn’t going to when the shit that went down was his fault.
I mean I don’t judge people that choose to forgive, but if it’s going to be such hard work, really maybe that’s your gut telling you not to forgive in the first place. I know many people can get through things like abuse and infidelity, and good for them, but it’s not really their place to “put in the work”. I hate to call her out but I think of GG. She wasn’t really the one putting in the work in her case, Gguy had to do everything to fix the trust, and RIGHTLY SO.
I actually don’t disagree with you, I think it can be either. Like I did have to forgive him for breaching my trust which wasn’t easy and I had to think carefully about it. But he had to do most of work regaining my trust (and honestly him forgiving himself was the hardest thing.) So, I had to do a little work/sole searching and he had to do A LOT. I agree there are often times where the person forgiving should just listen to themselves and realize it’s over.
Ok see I think the difference is if Ethan had put in the work to fix his behavior and he begged you to forgive him, and he actually showed you that he changed. Then you may want to forgive him, but it could still take you time to forgive him and trust him again and feel comfortable around him. I’m saying that if the other person does the work, then it can still take some hard work to forgive someone (as in GG’s case or BreezyAm’s).
Yeah I probably shouldn’t have used a personal example because I actually wouldn’t have forgiven him regardless, and my post was kind of misleading in that aspect. I think some things are just black and white wrong, and he did them, so no amount of “I’m a changed man” would have tugged at my (cold, black) heart strings.
So I probably shouldn’t have said, “I could have forgiven him, I guess” and instead said, “hypothetically, I can see how people in my position would have been able to forgive.”
I agree some things aren’t forgiveable. i was just more saying that (in a hetero couple) if a man screws up, and he asks for forgiveness, and does the work and is accountable AND the woman chooses to forgive him, then she may also have to do some “work” to forgive him because forgiveness is hard. If she says “Ok you can stay” but then keeps resenting him and bringing up the issue and stuff, it will slowly kill the relationship.
Yes Kerry, that’s basically what I was trying to say!
Yes Kerry, that’s basically what I was trying to say!
Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. If you don’t want answers then don’t ask questions. Considering that YOU were the one to end his relationship with this woman, I’d say the problem still exists. You don’t want a partner, you want a puppet.
Nice still making excuses for him. Must be suck having all these doubts, and being afraid to do anything about them. Sounds like you copied and pasted past DW advice to get everybody off your back.
Bagge! Totally random, but you’re my only friend on the nike running app and I was so close to talking shit on facebook about how I was beating you in overall monthly miles the other day but then I was like, calm down psycho.
Um, I would totally be ok with that! I actually only have as many miles as I do, because somebody at work started talking shit haha. I’ve never done more than 51 miles in a month, but I felt like I had to really really beat him hahaha. Though I have a feeling you are going to be running way more than me!
Haha probably not, I apparently don’t do my two short runs during the week anymore, which was a guaranteed 8 miles, because it’s fucking cold. So now I only do a medium run on Wednesdays and a long run on the weekends. And I skipped last weekend because Colin’s parents were in town, and booze. But it was really funny, I actually thought about publically shit talking you and then I had to remind myself that I don’t *actually* know you in real life, and maybe that would be weird.
Womp womp.
Wow….I don’t get it….nothing about the reunion at all?
This reminds me of when I was still with my ex and wrote a bunch of forum posts asking things like like “we see money in TOTALLY different ways, what can I doooo?” and “he’s not talking to me! We have communication issues! How can I fix it??” When in reality the relationship was doomed for a looong time and I was in total denial about that. This situation sounds like it’s similar.
Actually other day my best friend told me “If you had married that guy I couldn’t have FAKED happiness for that wedding.” Hahahaaaa. I love her.
thats a true friend. haha
how is opal doing???
Opal is great! She’s been very friendly and cuddly, though she’s still timid. She’s slept in my bed with me the last two nights and seems to loooove attention. She also likes the cheapo treats I got her better than the more expensive ones, so I’m ok with that! 🙂 I’m totally going to friend you on Facebook so you can see pictures. My initials are LM.
yay! aw im so happy. im not gonna lie i was so scared when we were going back and forth over the weekend! that is the kind of stuff people say when they bring cats back at the shelter….. but, she’s good, so yay! just remember, good experiences!
and yes, you found me! haha
I was a bit scared this weekend too. She still uses the litter box infrequently so maybe she just has a massive bladder? Who knows. She’s really scared to be picked up, but will rub up against my leg and sit in my lap. She’s a sweetheart, and it gets better day by day. She also seems to love most toys — catnip mice, Da Bird, laser pointer, etc. I plan on getting her an array of holiday collars. 🙂
So happy your kitty is coming out of her shell 🙂 I have 4 rescue kitties. One of them took about 6 months to warm up to me, now he sleeps with me nightly. Another one of my kitties has shared my pillow pretty much every night for the last 7 years. Cats are just the best.
She’s such a sweetheart. 🙂 I’ve found attention and pets motivate her more than food. She LOVES sleeping in my bed with me, but she usually cuddles for a little bit and then settles right near the edge of the bed.
ha, she sounds so much like zoe! intermittent litter box usage (weve had issues pretty much zoe’s whole life), doesnt like to be picked up, likes a little attention but then goes off on her own, loves playing… haha
She only pees like once per day! And I have yet to find cat pee/poop around the house. It’s weird, but whatever. Maybe I’m not giving her enough water? I try to keep her water dish filled all day.
oh, so many things. haha
1. cats are dehydrated as a species. they dont have a large thirst drive because in the wild they wouldnt drink much water, and they would get most of their hydration from internal organs of small animals. so they just dont drink a lot in general.
2. mammals have an instinct to drink running water. they are drawn to the sound of it. its thought to be an evolutionary thing, because running water will be cleaner then like, standing swamp water. i figured this out after googling why my cats loved the tap water while i was brushing my teeth. they have had a pet fountain ever since.
2a. wet food is another way to get more moisture in a cat’s diet.
3. she could be only peeing once per day because she is still scared- whenever something “happens” to zoe (ie. we have guests over or something ridiculous), she will slow her litterbox usage. cats are vulnerable while using their box, if they are scared they are going to try to limit that time as much as they can.
4. maybe she just pees once a day- that could be it too. as long as you arent finding it in other places, as long as she is using it consistently, thats a good thing!
5. praise/love/treats after litterbox usage if you ever see it happen.
I think that some LWs mistake constructive criticism/honesty for name-calling. I mean, you never see anyone saying that if they actually agreed with/followed the advice.
I think some LWs are trolls.
Wait? Wasn’t this letter like only a few weeks ago? Anyway, yeah. That guy sure caused those trust issues alright. He caused them by marrying the LW in the first place!!
😉
Oh yeah, she was one of those “special love” types, wasn’t she? I just refreshed my memory with her comments from her original letter… Well, LW, I’m glad the issue worked itself out in less than 2 months and that things are stellar now.
(But, in all seriousness, I do wish you well.)
I think I can decipher this: “Hey, mean jerks, things are going great because I haven’t found anything from snooping lately” – Which really means that the husband wised up and got a phone LW doesn’t even know exists.