Your Turn: “I’m Jealous of His Hot Friend”
In a feature I call “Your Turn,” in which you, the readers, get to answer the question, I’m presenting the following letter without commentary from me:
My boyfriend told me I shouldn’t worry and I trust him, but she’s always teasing him, trying all sorts of things to get his attention. He mostly tries to not show interest, but eventually he will look. I know it’s normal to find other people attractive and I won’t complain to him beacuse he’s not doing anything wrong, but I feel bothered that she shows no respect for our relationship. I’m also afraid that, I don’t know, they hang out together a lot, and what if someday he gets really drunk and ends up sleeping with her? Will it be ‘just a mistake,’ like I’ve heard from another friend of theirs who cheated on his girlfriend with her?
She’s in his close social circle and I don’t know how to deal with her. I’ve talked about it with my best friend and she told me I should leave it this way because there will always be women who want male attention and the men will always give it to them in some degree (why do guys do that?). The problem is that she makes me feel envious, bitter, jealous, insecure and unattractive. Maybe I just really am. I’ll never be as hot and pretty as she is. I know my boyfriend doesn’t care (he’s my boyfriend, after all) but I feel like I’m not enough. What should I do? — Jealous of His hot Friend
How does one go about “asking nicely” why a girl flirts with taken guys?
LW, I get where you´re coming from, I really do (I am very insecure, as well), but try to remember that your BF is with you (and not his friend) for a reason.
That being said, I would try to keep my distance from this girl, but without being mean about it (she sounds like the type of person you don´t want as an enemy)
definitely – she sounds pretty unstable and actually very mean
Ugh, this girl is the girl that gives rise to the “women can be such bitches” trope. I’m tempted to just say “what a huge bitch” and leave it at that….but the fact is, she is probably behaving this way because she is deeply unhappy in her own life.
Exactly! LW: don’t let her unhappiness rub off on you! You are good enough.
So true! Happy people don’t try to mess with other people….unhappy people do that. And maybe it’s not a bad idea to be friends with her because she probably doesn’t have a lot of female friends because of her attitude and behavior.
I’d say stay away as much as possible. A “friend” like this will never be a true friend. Everything must center on her and at best you’d be an accessory. You’re worth much more than that and so I think you’d be selling yourself low if you became her friend. Besides, it would be torture and who needs to do that to themself.
All of the women that I met who act this way are pretty damn happy with themselves, and after they meet a “decent” guy … they get to CHANGE and know what love really is about!
Yeah, I gotta agree. Most of the stuck up, bitchy, and gorgeous people that I have known have never exactly been miserable. Far from it, folks. Far from it. Oh, it’s a nice fantasy… That they are just lashing out because they are so, so, so unhappy. And many cling to this fantasy… But the reality is that these hideously gorgeous fuck ups/trainwrecks often simply sail through their lives quite happily, greatly enjoying the chaos that on they can bring about…
Yeah I agree with you and it echos my opinion that she’s an egomaniac and not insecure. I think many of them [the destructive types] are so out of touch with reality that they’re not even aware that they are a wave of chaos.
Truedat! Who wouldn’t be happy being pretty, and banging anything you want with out any morals getting in the way. It’s pretty much the best of both worlds, and then when this girl decides she wants to settle down with some guy, everyone is going to be twice as pissed because she had her cake, and ate it too. Though then you will hear that she is doing it for the money or some other line. She’s a douche, but she is a happy douche so just take care of your own business.
She might have trouble “settling down”, though. Could a guy trust her after seeing or hearing about how she behaves now? (I don’t have a problem with her being flirtatious or having lots of sex partners, but the seducing of otherwise “taken” men bothers me). Can SHE be faithful? Can SHE trust a man knowing how easily they stray for her? If she’s not unhappy now, she might be paving the path for future unhappiness.
Also, IF she places all or most of her self-worth on her physical appearance and/or ability to attract a man, then that’s asking for more unhappiness down the road. Looks do fade.
So, yeah, while she might be living the life now, I doubt it’ll last.
That’s the best part, though! She’ll get to “change” and “learn the error of her ways” and hoodwink some stupid “nice guy” into falling for her shit. I’ve seen it happen one too many times.
I lost a good friend to this very thing last July. I miss him, but not enough to hang around his skanktastic girlfriend, who cheated on her last boyfriend with at least two other men and made a pass at Mr. Temperance.
That’s very true. There really is no poetic justice, except that these people do inevitably get older and will lose their mojo.
But I’m convinced that the LW’s nemesis is really some gorgeous dragon lady. Women are often amazingly bad at determining whether other women are attractive. She’s probably psyching herself out.
NOT convinced, that she’s a dragon lady..
Yep. Agreed. No doubt, there are some incredibly miserable people out there who go out of their way to make everyone else miserable too, but this girl doesn’t sound like one of those.
I’ve met plenty of girls (and guys) who are so self involved and wrapped up in their little “me” bubble they can’t see, or don’t care about, the havoc they wreck on those around them.
I would ask her nicely ONCE not to do the flirty stuff with your boyfriend, frame it in a way that shows it makes YOU uncomfrotable. Don’t insult her, just be firm and clear that while you have no problem with what she does with other guys it makes you uncomfortable when she flirts with your boyfriend (maybe throw in a compliment about how she’s so pretty or whatever). While it seems cowardly to have to tiptoe around her ego it’s the smartest thing to do when she’s a regular part of the social scene. I’ve known girls like this and this chick has issues so don’t push her buttons or she won’t ever go away until your break up with your bf.
I would also ask him nicely ONCE not to flirt back with her. Tell him that given what you know about her it makes you very uncomfortable.
If your bf starts flirting back with her then fuck that he’s a douche and needs to be dumped because it is never worth it to date someone that you are constantly anxious and insecure about. It makes you into an ugly person and no one wants to feel like the jealous, insecure, ugly person in the group.
You’ve already told him your concerns. Don’t become the girlfriend that is always voicing her worries about him cheating and forbidding him to see this girl. In the meantime be charming when you’re out in a group.
There’s nothing you can do beyond talking to her that one time and working on your own self esteem. LW: You are good enough! And if he starts regularly flirting back with her then HE’s not good enough for you.
I would respectfully disagree… I think with that personality type, you cannot show her that she threatens you. That will only add fuel to her fire and make her see your boyfriend as a target.
I agree. I think this grl would completely ramp up her attention on the boyfriend to prove a point. She’s talked to her boyfriend and it doesn’t seem from her letter that she has any real concerns about him. Even though she may feel insecure in front of this girl, I think it’s important that she LOOKS secure so as not to draw attention to a perceived weakness.
You may be right about not talking to the girl. However I stand by the fact that she should let the bf know that it makes her uncomfortable and only let him know once.
She already had a talk with him.
From the letter I didnt get the full sense that the talk was ” Im uncomfortable with this girl don’t react back to her please” If you already said those things LW then by all means you’ve done your part and only need to see if he can do his.
Sometimes these kinds of people like this girl can be blessings in (very heavy) disguise. If your boyfriend flirts back with her and puts her ahead of you then you will have learned that he’s not the guy for you
I would agree with Bunny, also. The best message you can send to a person like this is no message. If you give her any kind of attention at all, she will learn that her behavior gets her that attention, which is exactly what she wants. If you ignore her, she will get bored and find an easier target. If enough people do this, perhaps she will get the clue. This girl is despicable, but it’s her problem, not yours. If a man cheats on his wife/girfriend with a woman like this, then he is not worth anybody’s time, especially not yours.
I think the only option would be for your boyfriend to ask to stop- she’s not going to listen to you as evidenced by her comments and behavior. But if your boyfriend (or other guy friends in your social circle) told her to sop, she might. Or she’ll get mad and ditch them.
I meant- have the boyfriend ask her to stop flirting and being touchy feely with him.
She sounds like she needs validation…..no one goes out of their way for that much attention, even from married or committed men unless they actually feel insecure about themselves.
Whoops, I meant especially, not even**
Many people may disagree with me on this, but I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying to a significant other “I don’t think this person respects our relationship and the way she acts towards you makes me uncomfortable. I am not OK with you spending time alone with her and I wish you would limit the amount of time you spend with her in general.” Maybe your boyfriend won’t be ok with that, but if he really prioritizes spending time with this female friend over making you happy then you can see where his intentions lie. Yes, I think you should trust your significant other but you are right, people get drunk and stupid shit happens. The solution to that problem is to never put yourself in a position where you are able to cheat (aka alone in someone’s apartment/hotel room/whatever).
To address your insecurities: yes, you may never look like this girl. But you must have something going for you to be in a relationship for a year. A great personality, ambition, brains, sense of humor. Whatever it is you need to remind yourself that you are a beautiful person to be valued. And this girl probably has her own set of problems. Maybe she desperately wants to be in love but never figured out how to be girlfriend material and she possibly hates that men only ever want to sleep with her, not date her. Maybe she has really bad father figure issues. Or was abused as a child (many child abuse victims are hyper-sexual as adults). Whatever the reasoning everyone has problems, you just don’t know it.
Furthermore, cheating is not always about how attractive the other person is or someone be attracted to someone else. There is usually something wrong in a relationship when someone cheats. So focus on building up your confidence and keeping your relationship strong, then you really won’t worry about this stuff.
the best quote I’ve ever heard about how attractiveness and cheating are often mutually exclusive is “well, let’s look at how Sandra Bullock’s marriage ended and I think we’ve answered the question of whether or not that f*cking matters”.
I absolutely agree with you that there is nothing wrong with letting your SO know that you feel uncomfortable with a specific individual, provided it’s framed the way you suggest.
And Tiger Woods- his wife was beautiful and some of the women he cheated on her with looked like they’d been living a very hard life
Actually, I completely agree with you. This woman isn’t just a girl with lots of platonic male friends – she specifically preys on men in relationships. And besides, if this guy really cares about his GF, why would he want to hang out with someone who so clearly disrespects his relationship?
I really agree with what Kerry is saying here; though I would add that LW says this is her first real boyfriend, so it sounds like they’re very young. I can see a more mature couple being okay with asking one party to spend less time with someone who may be destructive to the relationship, but that suggestion might not go over well with a younger couple who spend a lot of their social time in groups where this other girl might be.
It is very easy for things to happen when alcohol is in the picture and two young people find themselves alone in these situations. No, people aren’t complete animals and can certainly choose to control themselves if they wish to do so, but ugly things do happen sometimes. If LW’s BF finds this girl fun and attractive, and she really turns her sights on him sometime when they are alone and drinking, I think it is actually a reasonable fear that things could get out of hand.
It does make me sad that women like this deliberately set out to make other people unhappy.
I agree about the comfort thing. There was this one girl who sort of joined my social circle who I thought looked like a prettier, thinner version of me, and I was unjustifiably insecure with things having to do with her. I thought my then boyfriend handled it quite well. My then-boyfriend’s response to things like that would to make a joke as I was voicing that, as in, oh yeah, I’m defintely going to leave you for her. When I told him that even that made me feel bad, he stopped. He’d of course talk to her at parties but i could not imagine a world in which they’d hang out one-on-one, with him knowing how crappy I felt regarding her. He would make sure not to like, actively try to sit next to her at dinner parties, etc. Maybe I was jealous (I still can’t figure out if that was it or if she just rubbed me the wrong way or what — i think it probably was jealousy) but I didn’t have to ask him not to hang out with her and to keep a little distance— telling him how bad she irrationally made me feel was enough for him to just be conscious of possibly bumming me out. Wasn’t her fault, wasn’t his fault, but that didn’t matter — its how I felt and what kind of boyfriend doesn’t make inconsequential little changes to make his partner happy when it basically costs him nothing?
If they had been good friends from before I came along, it would have been different, and, she had joined by group of friends, not his, but it doesn’t sound like this girl and your BF go way back and are BFFs; it just seems like they run in the same circles. I would absolutely tell your boyfriend that this girl makes you feel bad about yourself, even though you know it shouldn’t, and that the attention that she gets from everyone’s BFs, including him sometimes, makes you feel ugly and shitty. Say you know that it isn’t is fault, and that she is pretty so you get it, but it does make you feel bad. Say that on top of that, the fact that she has slept with other taken guys in your group makes you feel even crappier, because that means it isn’t just “her being friendly.” Make it about how him responding to her makes you feel; do not make it about trust at all. Don’t even mention trust or him cheating with her — it is about feeling bad in the interactions; not your fears of what else will happen. See what he says.
Again, the saying . . . when this happens, I feel this . . .
Make it about your feelings, and people respond a lot kinder. This has even worked for me in work settings with my boss.
I like this but I think I’d make it about the friendship. I’d say that a real friend respects you enough to respect your relationship and this woman shows no respect for relationships so she doesn’t respect her male friends. I’d say that I don’t think she’s really a friend.
And ask if he would find it acceptable if one of his guy friends was doing the same with you that she is with him. Would he be comfortable with you being alone with the guy friend. Would he still consider the guy a good friend. Tell him you think he deserves better from a friend.
Agreed… sometimes people need to be reminded to imagine themselves in the other person’s shoes.
Violet,
I agree that age of the couple factors in here. In college I would let my boyfriends get away with so much stupid/shady stuff because I didn’t want to be labeled as “needy” or a “nag” or “uptight”. After getting a lot of dating experience I found that I was able to tell a man what I needed upfront. With my current boyfriend I “laid down the law” pretty quickly and told him what I was ok/not ok with such as: You cannot be alone with women in an apartment, or neither of us go out to dinner/drinks with someone of the opposite sex alone but in a group is ok. This has worked out really well but I think that a younger couple could have trouble communicating these needs. They are also figuring out for themselves what boundaries they want to establish with partners.
Very good point, Kerry! 🙂
There’s a reason your boyfriend is with you and not her. However, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea to ask him to refrain being with her one on one. Not because you don’t trust him, but because this woman just sounds like trouble. People are human, and trust is important. But she sounds like she’d do anything to snag someone else’s man and if he’s ever vulnerable or like you mentioned drunk it could be a problem. Ideally trust would win out, but if you combine hormones, alcohol and a very attractive, aggressive woman things can get out of control no matter how much he loves you. It happens the other way around too by the way, I’m not just stereotyping a man not being able to say no. I think it’s just best to not be put in that position. Hanging out as a group is one thing, you can’t keep her from being the way she is, but you can keep things under control. If your letter gave any indication that they were life long friends or something like that I might have different advice but I just don’t see the need to hang out one on one with a casual friend knowing the situation.
I had a very similar experience with my ex, LW. His best friend was a very attractive girl who was incredibly flirtatiou. She was extremely handsy (but only with men) and would often do or say things to my ex that made me feel uncomfortable. She tried and tried to push me out of the picture, trying to convince my ex that if they were hanging out one-on-one, I could under no circumstances be there because she felt “awkward.” She never had a romantic interest in my ex, but constantly made me feel like she did with her repeated attempts keep me isolated.
Ultimately this was a huge problem for me, but it had very little to do with her and very much to do with my ex. He would always go along with what she said, or cater to her feelings over mine. That is NOT okay. Look carefully at the situation, but try to remain objective. See where your insecurity is really coming from. Is it solely this girl’s behavior, or is it partly your boyfriend’s as well?
LW, this girl will probably always be a cause for insecurity on some level, but it’s your boyfriend’s attitude that should determine if this is really an issue or not. My ex was bending over backwards for his friend, leaving me in the dust, and making me wonder who it was he actually wanted to date. If your boyfriend shows you in numerous ways that you are more important than this friend of his, try to move past your insecurity. If you’re enough for your boyfriend, he’ll make you feel that way.
Also, talk to your boyfriend about what your comfort level is regarding this girl, explaining why you feel that way. Don’t attack your boyfriend or his friend, but explain what it is about certain situations or actions that makes you feel uncomfortable. Maybe he can control his drinking when he’s around her, or avoid hanging out with her one on one. She obviously has no respect for your relationship. A good discussion with your boyfriend will show that HE respects you and wants to make sure you are happy.
I am very sorry you had this nasty experience, Micah. It’s true that there is a lot of unnecessary jealousy and paranoia in relationships. However, it is unfortunately also the case that there are some people who like to behave in very destructive ways toward others’ relationships. I agree that she needs to gauge her BF’s reaction to the matter and proceed from there.
Thank you, Violet. It was very difficult for me, which is why I really feel for the LW in this situation. In my case, my ex was very dismissive of my insecurities (Another red flag, LW. If your boyfriend diminishes the validity of your feelings, that may be a sign to MOA.), and I’m still struggling with the aftermath. (Did I mention I later learned he’d asked her out several years prior and was rejected? That was SUCH a boost for my self-esteem..)
Anyway, this isn’t about me or my ex, it’s about you, LW. If this girl makes you uncomfortable, you need to voice those feelings to your boyfriend, not just to her. He should have no problem making sure you are put at ease.
I understand some of your struggle and I hope that you find some peace very soon. Obviously this had nothing to do with you not being a good enough person to date, but rather poor circumstances in which your ex had some unresolved issues with his friend. That is their problem, and I am sorry you got mixed up in it. 🙁 When you are ready, I am sure it will help you in the future to avoid red flag situations like this. Hugs to you.
Thank you so much, that really means a lot 🙂 I’m getting over it. It helps that I’m dating a wonderful man who is infinitely more mature and respectful. It helps a lot, actually, haha.
From a fairly flirtatious girl, who also has a lot of close guy friends (but differs from the girl mentioned above in that I’m not making moves on committed guys) – if my best friend started dating a girl that quickly demanded he stop spending time alone with me, I’d probably advise him to break up with her because she was a crazy controlling a-hole. Yes, any man should try to make his girlfriend comfortable, but when people start asking you to give up your friends it crosses a line in my mind.
Sorry, I disagree. If the friend in question can’t respect social boundaries or relationships, she’s not a real friend. If the boyfriend would rather cater to his bitchy friend’s whims than make sure his girlfriend feels respected, he probably is going to get dumped. There is a difference between being “crazy and controlling” and not being a doormat.
Agreed!
Agreed.
As another attractive/flirty female I have had a good guy friend of mine tell me he can’t hang out with me one on one anymore because of his girlfriend. She is a very nice girl but I know she has some self-esteem issues so I certainly wouldn’t want to do anything that would make her uncomfortable. I invite her to all of my parties and she always comes with her bf and I always make sure to make her feel as welcome as possible. While it sucks that I can’t have the friendship that I want, I respect him more for his decision to put his gf’s feelings over a friend’s feelings.
THIS is how a good friend would behave for their friend. My best friend of over a decade is an ex-boyfriend from high school (we’re in our 30s now). When he started dating a girl a couple years ago, she was clearly uncomfortable with our relationship. I respected that and loved him enough that I re-worked our relationship a bit and drew some boundry lines to make her more comfortable, thereby making his life easier and able to maintain our friendship. Now, we don’t get our one on one time as much, but we still have a great friendship and I’ve actually added a friend because she’s always around when we hang out. Its worked out rather nicely for all of us (and I’m sure my own boyfriend is happier and more secure too).
SherBear, you seem like an awesome person. It’s tough having close, opposite-sex friendships and a significant other, and navigating those boundaries, but you seem to be a really good friend who is committed to respecting everyone.
In college, I had a lot of male friends, and whenever there was a new girlfriend, I’d try to schedule some hang-out time for just the girls to build bridges instead of burning them. It’s served me well since I ended up staying friends with more of the girls than the guys once we all went our separate ways.
Thanks, I try to be as awesome as possible 😉
Not if that friend shows absolutely zero respect for the importance of a significant other. Then that friend just seems like bad news and wouldn’t be someone I’d want to stick around, anyway.
There’s a huge difference between being close friends with a guy, and being friends while outright telling his girlfriend you would feel no remorse if he cheated with you. Telling your boyfriend to stop seeing all female friends is a little nutso. But when the girl shows no respect for your relationship while constantly trying to win over his attention that just seems like a bad situation for everyone involved.
It doesn’t really sound like she’s his FRIEND, though– just some girl who’s part of the circle only to soak up male attention.
Like…if the boyfriend told this girl “hey, my girlfriend thinks I shouldn’t spend any alone time with you,” I have a feeling she’d be like “YES. I WON.” That’s a slightly different animal than how you described yourself (@question)
Yes, but as you said, you don’t make moves on committed men. as I posted earlier on this thread… This woman isn’t just a girl with lots of platonic male friends – she has a track record of preying on men in relationships. So the LW has actual, specific reasons for feeling like this woman could threaten her relationship.
The LW is not demanding he never see her again. The LW is asking how to deal with her insecurity about this girl in the social group. And so far none of us have said “don’t let your bf see her”. Instead we said that she should let her bf know that it makes her uncomfortable when this girl comes on to him and to a)either let this girl know that he doesn’t like it when she does that (without mentioning girlfriend) or b) ignore her and don’t flirt back
How he continues to act around the girl (so far he doesn’t seem to be doing anything wrong) will show where his priorities really lie
I didn’t see anything in the letter that indicated that she “quickly demanded” he stop spending time with this girl. They’ve been together for a year and it seems like it is an issue that has become more bothersome for her over time. I would hardly place LW in the “controlling a-hole” category. She seems to be trying hard to reconcile her feelings with her understanding that she needs to be able to trust her partner. I call foul on this assumption.
Honestly, you’re giving this girl exactly what she wants. She WANTS you to feel ugly and insecure and “not enough” for your boyfriend. She’s an insecure, nasty piece of work who enjoys hurting other people because, more than likely, it’s the only thing that distracts her momentarily from her own self-loathing. This girl has deep seated issues, I can guarantee you.
So stop reacting exactly how she wants you to. If you can’t avoid her in social settings (though I agree…it’s not wrong to ask your boyfriend to not hang out with her one on one), then don’t allow her to get the best of you when you have to be in the same room. Don’t glare at her, or sulk, or roll your eyes. Do the opposite — smirk a little bit, try not to laugh at her desperate attempts for attention; let her see that you’re one person, at least, who sees her for who she really is…and you think it’s so pathetic it’s almost funny.
This girl isn’t going to change. She’s going to continue taking her misery out on other people for a long, long time. So don’t let her drag you down into misery, either. Maybe brushing her off with a smirk isn’t the *most* mature way to go about it, but it’s a way of maintaining your own confidence in your relationship, while showing her that she can’t faze you.
I agree. One of the first things that jumped out at me was the insecurity of the pretty, flirtatious girl, not the problem of the LW.
That’s a tough one. I’ve always been the person that believes that someone saying “I trust my significant other, I just don’t trust the other girls” really doesn’t trust the significant other and just doesn’t want to admit it.
This friend sounds like a predator. To have her say, “if your boyfriend cheats on you with me, that’s not my problem” is ridiculous. I’m sure that would test even the most secure relationships.
You can’t tell your boyfriend what to do, but confiding in him about what she has said and asking to not spend time alone with her isn’t too bad. Especially given the situation.
While it could be true that she’s insecure, she might just be an egomaniac too. Either way I agree that she’s a predator.
I agree with everything except the “let her see that you’re the one person who sees her for who she really is.”
I’d take it a step farther. Look at this girl’s actions objectively. She desperately craves validation from ANYONE who will give it to her. Think about how sad she must be on a day-to-day basis in order to require that. Try to cultivate some genuine pity for her. Take smug satisfaction in the idea that you are a much more secure person, so you don’t need all that. And then try to be kind to her. You don’t need to be a FRIEND, but you can be kind in your interactions. The best thing to do to get this girl to stop being trouble for you is to be accepting of her. No matter what she says, don’t act offended. Eventually she’ll stop trying to shock you and she may let her guard down.
I’m not saying this because I think this girl genuinely deserves the kindness, although one could argue that she might. I’m saying it because it will lead the the outcome that you desire- not feeling insecure around her, being able to tolerate her presence. And if she likes you, she may just stop flirting with your boyfriend. Who knows.
That said, I’d ask him to be “busy” whenever she wants to hang out one on one, no explanation that it makes you uncomfortable necessary.
The whole “If a guy can’t be faithful, it’s his problem” might be a valid philosophy, but she shouldn’t apply it to guys in her social group whose girlfriends she’s acquainted with (most awkward sentence ever? but you get my point…)
This girl just sounds like she needs constant validation. That makes HER the sad, insecure one– not you. Your boyfriend just needs to put up a wall so she doesn’t feel as if she can tease any reaction out of him. Once she realizes that, she’ll probably focus her energy elsewhere.
Truly rich people don’t brag about money; truly intelligent people don’t talk down to others; truly secure people don’t seek empty validation. She isn’t who you think she is.
I think everyone has made some good points so far. This girl sounds like she could cause trouble (and perhaps the wants to), but doing anything that might possibly piss her off could make the situation worse. If LW shuts her down or tells her off, this girl might try to go after the boyfriend, simply out of revenge.
But where is the boyfriend in this? I assume he’s an adult and he’s capable of speaking for himself. Why doesn’t he shut her down? It would probably do no good if he tells her that she makes his girlfriend uncomfortable with all the touching and flirting, true. However, he should be totally capable of saying, “Hey, so-and-so, I know you think you’re just being friendly (or you’re proud of your sexuality, or whatever her explanation is to the guys), but really, I feel that all this flirtation and touching is disrespectful. I like being your friend, but all this touching, teasing, and flirting is getting a little old, because I’m in a very happy relationship and by doing those things it feels like you’re not respecting my relationship, which means you’re not respecting me. I would really appreciate it if you would tone those things down.”
If he shuts her down, what is she going to do, try to sleep with his girlfriend?
He know his girlfriend’s insecurities about this situation, and he could alleviate them relatively easily. If he doesn’t want to stop hanging out with her (not that I’m saying that’s the right course of action, just that it’s an option people often jump to), he could at least put his foot down about her behavior.
Yes! We had a girl like this in our circle of friends only she wasn’t so blatant and she specifically had a thing for my boyfriend. I was getting pissy and jealous because she’d do the arm touches, the lingering looks, etc. And then all of a sudden the problem went away. I asked him about it way later (after she moved away and was no longer around) and he told me she’d made an overt move, and he shut her down and told her to leave him alone.
She can’t steal a man who doesn’t want to be stolen, and if he has any kind of integrity at all he won’t put himself in a position where he could make stupid drunk mistakes with her. Especially not when he (presumably) knows she is the way she is.
>> She can’t steal a man who doesn’t want to be stolen
Exactly. I think that the LW may have an exaggerated belief in this woman’s power over men.
I think a lot of women have the subconscious idea that men are all horndogs, therefore any woman can get any man. And that it’s only restraint on the part of the women that keeps our society mostly monogamous. It’s kind of depressing, actually. Give your men a little credit, ladies! If he’s worth it he can keep it in his pants!
I definitely agree.
I really really like this! However it is hard to defeat years of societal ‘training’ that perpetuate this ideology that women are the ones keeping a man’s sexuality ‘in check.’ All of the major religions of the world put a HUGE emphasis on women to remain ‘chaste’ and seem to imply that the woman is the temptress (Hi Eve!) I mean the first question most women ask themselves if a guy cheats on her is ‘omg is she prettier than me’ and when if she isn’t we are baffled/insulted etc.
It’s harmful for both men AND women to have this attitude. And I think it’s really insulting to men too!
Yeah, I think it goes hand in hand with the double standard that gives us female slut shaming but male slut applauding. There has to be less awkward phrasing for that but you know what I mean.
Yes! Kinda makes you want to go all earth mother on world religions, amirite?
THIS!!! The boyfriend needs to shut her down, not the LW. And if he’s not willing to do it, then on some level he enjoys that attention….and he enjoys it enough to jeopardize his relationship which means that he’s really not worth it.
The popular opinion so far seems to be that she’s insecure and doing it out of a need for validation, and I agree that could be true, but she might just be a narcissist. “She likes to brag about how she slept with her former boss’ husband after she got fired just to prove that if she wants your man, she can have him,” this sounds more like ego stroking to me rather than validation. Not sure it makes much of a difference if she’s insecure or narcissistic, but I just wanted to throw the idea out there.
As for what I think the LW should do about it, well I think any attempts to outright ban your BF from seeing her would likely backfire and I’d advise against it. I do think it’s reasonable to have another conversation about how you distrust this woman and ask your BF if he would be willing to not spend time with her alone. Make sure you mention that it’s not about a lack of trust in him, but rather a strong lack of trust for a woman that has a KNOWN history of going after non-single men. Asking him to avoid being in a vunerable (alone) position with this adulterous woman is far more respectful of your boyfriend compared to demanding it. I fear ordering him to avoid her might have the unindended consequence of communicating that you don’t trust him enough. And I would hope that he would be willing to do this for the both of you and to help ease the anxiety of his GF. I don’t get the impression that they’re best friends or anything so it shouldn’t be that big of a deal/inconvenience for him to only see her in group settings if it will have the effect of making you feel more comfortable. This is not a case of you being unreasonably jealous so don’t second guess your protective instincts.
“The problem is that she makes me feel envious, bitter, jealous, insecure and unattractive.” While this may be true, consider for a moment that even though this woman is super hott, you’re the only one that’s fucked your BF between the two of you. “What should I do?” Smile smugly the next time you’re all out together and she’s pulling her flirtatious routine. She maybe be flirting with him now, but you’ll be the one fucking him later, so you win.
Narcissism = insecurity
I think it’s more of a warped sense of entitlement and excessive vanity rather than insecurity. Basically it’s on the opposite end of the spectrum.
As far as I understand the psychological issue (narcissism is a psychological issue), narcissists don’t need validation.
If a narcissist threw a party and nobody attented, he’d still drink and eat and dance and have a blast, because all he needs is himself and everyone that didn’t go just missed an awesome time and the privilege of his company. And he truly believes that.
I may be mistaken, though, but that’s what I remember form psychology in highschool.
Exactly. I read a piece on narcissism that discussed how the idea that narcissists are in love with themselves is actually a misconception. In the original myth, Narcissis falls in love with his reflection, which means he’s in love with an image of himself, not who he actually is. Narcissists are so focused on keeping this image they want to portray up that they bury their true selves so deeply that they can no longer connect with their true selves. Being that out of touch with their feelings is the cause for all their deplorable actions that come off as complete disregard for other people’s feelings. If they ever appear to care, it’s only because they want others to think they care. It’s all pretty sociopathic, and much more complex than that, but I just though it was really interesting.
Oops! Coding fail. I only meant to ital reflection. Now what I wrote looks like a dream sequence in a bad fantasy novel. Ha.
I was just thinking it could be sociopathic. Most sociopaths aren’t serial killers but behave alot like this woman. They gain power by controling other people and female sociopaths often use sex and sexual allure to control men.
Also chiming in that it seemed more sociopathic. This is often intertwined with narcissism.
Actually, narcissism to me equals heightened security in an unnatural sense. At least that has pretty much always been my experience when I’ve run across it… Actually, I think a lot of you suffer from wishful thinking when it comes down to people being assholes… Trust me, very few assholes or bitches are miserable or even remotely insecure. Far from it. Instead, they revel in their power and get off on wielding it.
It’s a deluded fantasy to assume that deep down they are all plagued with miserable and terrible sadness. The universe so doesn’t work that way. It’s simply never quite so trite.
either way the chick has issues – whether she’s sad with herself or extremely pleased with herself
It sounds like both you and she have some issues with insecurity. You obviously feel insecure that your boyfriend is around an attractive girl you consider to be prettier than you, and she, for whatever reason, is so insecure that she needs guys to find her attractive to have any sense of self worth. Unfortunately, there isn’t really anything you can do about her insecurity, so you’ll have to deal with your own. I agree with reginarey: ask your boyfriend not to hang out with her one on one (and for pete’s sake, don’t tell her she’s not allowed to hang out with him one on one), and otherwise don’t rise to her bait. If she sees it doesn’t bother you, she’ll find someone else to taunt.
LW- you shouldn’t look at this girl with jealousy, but with pity. Yeah, she might seem near perfect on the outside, but clearly on the inside she is less than stellar. She’s acting this way because SHE’s insecure! She needs constant validation that she is “sexy” and “hot” and desirable. Maybe she is insecure with other aspects of her life; career success, maybe she feels like she isn’t smart enough etc. And so she thinks her only real value is in her looks thus she needs to continue to feed into that to build her self worth.
And you shouldn’t say anything to her regarding your feelings of insecurity or jealousy. That will only incentify her. Make her feel that all the girls are jealous of her and “she can steal anyone’s man”. Don’t give her that validation.
Also, back to you, you shouldn’t feel insecure with your self or a relationship because there is a hot girl around. Honey, as we get older this feeling will only get more and more. There will always be 20somethings with tight bodies.
Your last paragraph made me laugh a little.
I am actually more secure the older I get because I’m more comfortable with who I am. Yeah, I see gorgeous girls in their early 20s wearing tight, short dresses. But I’m never envious or jealous. Although I know I’m not competing with these girls because I wouldn’t want a guy who chooses them over me. I will say though, I was more envious of those types of girls when I was in my early 20s.
Which brings me to another point. I have super short hair. I love it. Female friends and relatives have said I should grow it out because men prefer women with longer hair. You know what? I don’t care. I would never date someone who likes me because my hair is a certain length.
God, I hate that. I heard it so much when I had my pixie cut, and my reaction was, “Oh god forbid I not be the hottest I can be for every man on the planet. I forgot that was my primary function in life.”
Well at least someone was kind enough to remind you. It’s OK we all make mistakes so on behalf of men everywhere we forgive you.
Thanks! You are *so* generous.
haha don’t mention it 🙂
Isn’t that the truth, painted_lady. I’ve had so many cousins and friends whose mothers would tell them they have to act a certain way or dress a certain way or lose weight or whatever to get a boyfriend or husband. No wonder so many girls are so messed up in the head. I’m so thankful my parents didn’t try to instill this mindset in me.
Yeah, Im sure Ill be more secure the older I get. But I know there will be a day when Im in my 40s…had a few kids…and watch some young babes in bikinis prance by and think…..Bitch!
Ha. I probably will too. Or think to myself, just wait until you get older and have kids.
But there is a difference in thinking that or saying it to friends and actually believing that the younger, prettier, whatever person is somehow better.
LW I feel that as long as your BF isn’t hanging out with this girl alone all of the time then you should just trust his judgement, and not really stress out about this to much. Maybe try to hangout more with his friends just to make it known that you are there, and maybe try to be better friends with her that way she will maybe feel less like to shove her vag in his face all of the time.
If he is hanging out with her alone a lot just ask him to stop, because that isn’t very appropriate. Also try to find out if he ignores her when you aren’t around, because I bet he doesn’t.
I used to work with a girl that was just like this. She used her looks constantly to get attention from guys, cheated on her boyfriend (a coworker of ours) with another coworker, then got back together with her boyfriend and got pregnant (should I mention she already had a 4 year old daughter, had been divorced, and was about 30 years old)? They got engaged, but she cheated on him again with the same coworker, so they broke up and she married (in secret) this other guy that then adopted the kid. It was messy. She would constantly flirt with guys, hated on women who were attractive (and who I can only imagine she deemed a threat to her for no reason other than her perceived insecurities about her looks) and would befriend women who she deemed unattractive and in need of her assistance. She was catty and all about the dra-ma. I never allowed myself to get sucked into her bullshit, was as nice as I could be around her, and eventually she was a person that faded from my life with zero animosity.
I never hated this girl, despite all the crappy things she would do to people. In fact, I pitied her. She was nice to me because I was not attractive enough to be a threat, but I could see right through her bull, so I never got close to her. People like this are not worth it to be friends with or to get too upset with when they act as you would expect them to. They use their looks to validate themselves because they are so insecure with who they are, they have nothing else. Do not flatter her into thinking she’s better than you because she’s prettier – she’s not. No one is. A person’s looks are just one factor in who they are, but they are not everything. If your boyfriend ends up being unfaithful with this girl, that’s his own cowardice and insecurities, not yours. You have no reason to feel threated by this person now OR in some contrived future where she steals your boyfriend from you. If he cheats on you, assess how damaging the situation is then, but don’t expect him to end up in her arms, otherwise your insecurities might just drive him to do it.
Own who you are. Be proud of yourself, your achievements, and your looks. There will always be someone who is smarter, prettier, funnier, kinder, generous, etc. But don’t let that diminsh the good in your life. Your boyfriend clearly sees what is so great about you, so never let him stop seeing that, regardless of who comes in and out of his life.
Do not feel threated by this girl. Pity her. Until she realizes what her insecurities are, she’ll never stop trying to bed as many men as possible. No matter how frequently, though, she’ll never be satisfied because her identity and self-worth are wrapped up in external factors. People who are comfortable in their own skins do not act like this, and no matter what they look like, those people are the truly beautiful ones.
“Own who you are. Be proud of yourself, your achievements, and your looks. There will always be someone who is smarter, prettier, funnier, kinder, generous, etc. But don’t let that diminsh the good in your life. Your boyfriend clearly sees what is so great about you, so never let him stop seeing that, regardless of who comes in and out of his life.”
Perfect! And keep in mind that your boyfriend almost certainly wouldn’t trust her enough for her to be his girlfriend. She might be beautiful but do any of the guys in the friend group trust her enough to want her?
A good friend of mine and I just had a discussion about how to deal with a situation like this. Because on one hand, it’s very delicate; if you ask him to refrain from spending time with her, he may (understandably) become defensive. HOWEVER. Here’s how I see it. Regardless of how good of friends you are with someone, and if I were in his position, I would see it this way:
It’s not a matter of cheating. It’s a matter of who you chose to surround yourself with. If a friend of mine was shamelessly putting the moves on me (after I had asked him to stop), I would tell him that he isn’t the kind of person I want to be around if he has no respect for the boundaries of my relationship.
This girl is trouble, and her excuse is flimsy-interfering in other’s relationships makes you just as guilty if you did it knowingly. Like others have said, she clearly has self-esteem issues. No person who loved themselves would act in the manner that you say she does.
LOVE this comment. This is what I tell my kids all the time — you need to choose those with whom you socialize. If you hang out with druggies, chances are you’ll end up using. If you hang around with smart people, it can absolutely rub off onto you — their motivations, study habits, interests, and thoughts. If you choose to hang out with someone who doesn’t respect your relationships, it can influence how you feel about those same relationships. And this is more directed at the boyfriend than at the LW, but it could be something to incorporate into your conversation with the bf.
Thanks! I was trying to think one day-I trust my boyfriend absolutely, but wouldn’t want him spending time with someone who was after him, and for a long time I couldn’t figure out why. Did it mean I secretly thought he would cheat? When I realized, no. I just had the thought of why would you want to spend time with someone who has no respect for your relationship and the woman you’re dating/love? To me, it’s similar if someone lets all their friends trash their SO and they never stand up for them.
I think it’s a pretty rational thought process, and makes it less about unnecessary jealousy than understanding and respect.
There was a woman like this in my circle of friends. Please note that I said “was”. I never liked her from the first time that she started hanging out with my friends, because I noticed little things that she did (like only friending the dudes on facebook, bringing her camera to a bar and cuddling up with dudes she had just met). Of course, when I brought this up, I was crazy, because SHE HAD A BOYFRIEND! SHE WASN’T LIKE THAT!
Well, I never liked her, because she lit off that red flag by saying that she didn’t have any female friends. Ruh-roh. I kept her at arms’ length, and I basically made myself show up wherever this chick would. I trust Mr. Temperance, but he seemed to believe in her “I’m just a friend!” routine (think that chick on The Office who tried to steal JIm).
DO NOT LET THIS BITCH KNOW THAT YOU ARE ONTO HER. She’ll feel more powerful because you’re “insecure”, and she’ll use it to her advantage. Instead, insert yourself wherever she is. Make her life difficult. Tip off the GFs or wives of the men she fucks, if you know them and really want to take her down a peg.
I’m so glad someone else sees a red flag when a girl says they don’t have any female friends. Usually there is a good reason why that’s the case.
Ehh…. Sometimes there’s a reason like this. But sometimes they just hate dealing with the drama that comes with girls. I have about three female friends who I’ve carefully selected over years and years of interacting with females every day. I’ve been in many, many female-only groups, camps, and work-environments over the years, and the more I’m around females, the less I have patience for them and their cattiness. And it’s not because I’m trying to steal somebody’s man. It’s because my personality is more like a man to begin with.
You’d looooove working in my office then. 🙂 (yes that’s sarcasm)
LW, as you put in the last bit of your letter he’s YOUR BF; in fact, he probably has an inkling that this girl is trouble. Honestly, she probably doesn’t want your BF insomuch as he’s a trophy– you have him and she doesn’t, thus she wants him. Ditto for any other guys she encounters. Don’t let her need to constant validation get into your head and enjoy your BF. Getting antsy around her will just give her satisfaction of knowing she’s spread the misery.
BTW, you may want to mention something to your BF (without making it into a big deal) that her being all up in his personal bubble, etc. is fairly rude, especially given his relationship status, and makes you feel awkward (I had a similar thing happen when I was with my ex, and while I didn’t fear any cheating, DANG was it annoying and awkward when she got all touchy-feely with him in social settings, because there is no polite, drama-free way to respond).
I think there’s a big difference between being jealous, and just flat out not liking someone. Whatever abuse or issues this girl may have had to face to make her into such an attention-seeker notwithstanding, you are allowed to just not like people sometimes. Yes, acting insecure will probably fuel this girl’s inappropriate behavior. But I personally have a tough time imagining any guy I would want to be with tolerating her behavior and continuing to want to spend a lot of time with her.
I consider myself an uber non jealous person. People aren’t property- and if someone chooses to be with me and I think they’re worthy of my trust, I give it to them wholeheartedly. I think that’s the only kind of relationship I can be happy with. But if someone is being rude and disrespectful to your relationship, it’s ok to not like them and to express your feelings to your bf. That’s not jealousy really, in my opinion, it’s having a spine. If he cares about you more than getting attention from some girl who clearly has issues, well, you know what kind of partner he is.
I can see why you’d be bothered. What your bf’s friend is doing is very disrespectful. Since there’s probably no changing her and it would probably only satisfy her more to know that she’s getting to you, I don’t advise saying anything to her or letting your demeanor around her her suggest that you’re bothered.
Your boyfriend probably doesn’t think it’s as disrespectful as you do because he’s known her for much longer and “that’s just how she is”. Explain to him that having known her for a far shorter amount of time, you can’t dismiss her actions as easily as a long time friend might be able to. Ask him how he would feel if the situation was reversed and your hot, lady-killer guy friend constantly flirted with you and made it clear that he considered no woman off limits to him. Then ask him to shut her down like Iseeshiny’s boyfriend did. The next time it happens he can simply say “I’m in a relationship. Show some respect.” Prepare him for the fact that she may act hurt but he needs to stand his ground if he wouldn’t rather hurt you.
H&O! H&O! Damn autocorrect!
Yikes. She sounds like a real bitch. Ah, hell, it’s Monday and I am in a real bad mood, so lets be more blunt. Hot Friend sounds like a real cunt. That’s a harsh and degrading label to be sure, but it is still not as harsh as her horrible behavior.
My advice?
Be Nice.
No, seriously. Be Nice. Be Very Nice. You don’t want her as an enemy. Clearly.
LW, I’ve been in a similar situation. My guy had a friend who clearly had a thing for him. When we’d hang out, she’d straight up ignore me, flirt with the dude, and whine about being single. It came to a head when she got drunk one night and said, among a small group of friends, when everyone could hear, “Why aren’t you single?” to my boyfriend. I was so angry, but I ignored her – no fueling that needy fire. However, when I was alone with my boyfriend, I told him it made me uncomfortable. His response was really reassuring – “it made me uncomfortable, too. We’ll just see less of her.” And while we see her around once in awhile, he’s definitely better about drawing boundaries and telling her to back off when she gets too flirty. Point is, definitely talk to your guy, but make sure, like many have said above, that you’re expressing your feelings, not demanding things of your boyfriend. You’ll get better results that way, without the resentment.
LW, just get a boom box on hand and play that when she walks through the door whenever the group is hanging out.
Or just for the heck of it cuz H&A are awesome!
Wow, that chick sounds like a real winner. I just can’t help but wonder, if that other girl is supposedly so hot, attractive and awesome, why is it that she cant get a significant other? Hmm?
Because she can’t. All she has really are her supposed looks, and lets face it, looks aren’t enough to sustain a healthy, happy, long lasting relationship.
LW, in a weird way, this is kind of a good thing. Consider her to be a great litmus test as far as your bf goes. If he’s the kind of guy that likes the attention shes giving him without any regard for how its making his actual girlfriend feel, then he really not that good of a bf after all. But on the flipside, if hes the kind of guy that sees her behavior for what it really is and doesn’t bite, then he sounds like a pretty good guy.
“if that other girl is supposedly so hot, attractive and awesome, why is it that she cant get a significant other?”
Some people don’t want to.
It’s more fun to fuck around with random guys that are in relationships for women like this, though. It’s a weird power orgasm.
Honestly, it sounds like you don’t have too much to worry about – at least from her.
You’ve talked about it with your boyfriend, he’s reassured you and asked him to trust him, he actively tries not to engage with her, and it sounds like when she’s around its part of group hang-out time, not one on one with your BF.
She’s obviously a shitty person, but he doesn’t seem to be showing any interest in going after her, and that’s what’s matters in terms of your relationship. You can’t control her, but it appears you two have a good thing going on that she can’t really touch (and it must be driving her nuts!). Don’t give her the satisfaction of knowing it gets to you, she probably wants your reaction just as much as she wants his.
The only issue you need to address are your insecurities. Whether or not you stay with him, whether or not this girl is around, there will always be someone prettier around. There will always be girls willing to flirt with committed guys. You need to trust in how awesome you are, and trust in how good your relationship is (if it is good, that is – don’t be naive and let yourself get walked on by a guy), and forget about outside factors.
LW, I feel for you! I sorta know what you are going through as my ex had a attention demanding roommate (female) who was never happy in a group unless she was out-telling everyone’s stories with crazier stories. I wasn’t really worried about her sleeping with my ex but I HATED how whenever she was around, I felt like I didn’t exist. I didn’t know her from college like all his other friends did, to me she was the person who monopolized every conversation everytime and made me feel invisible. Also, she was a cuttingly sarcastic kind of person, where as I’m more a complimentary connector so while I felt I was always kind, she was always insincere with me. I wish I could say that I managed to put her in her place, but I never did. I later on learned that what I was unhappy with was HIS actions that left me feeling invisible morethan hers ever could. But thats just my rambling story.
I think maybe LW you should explore why she makes you insecure, is it purely her looks, her confidence? Does your BF pass certain comments about her attractiveness? Also, if it is her looks thing, well maybe there’s a way to work on your own securities by admitting that you like how confident and well dressed she is? Maybe incorporate some of that into your own style etc. I think people have some awesome advice up here about how you can trust your bf and that she is looking at men as more trophies than people and thats unappealing to most everyone.
Oh god, the old roomie sounds just like a person I recently cut ties with, to a tee. If I didn’t know better I would assume it was the same person!!
i think that for you, this really comes down to trust. trust in your boyfriend and in your relationship. i absolutely dont blame you for having these thoughts- i often think bad things when my boyfriend makes girl friends from work and they go out and have drinks or whatever. but i just make them go away. i say to myself (for real)- i trust him, and i trust that he wouldnt do that to me because he tells me so. i make a choice -and i think you should too- that you will blindly trust him until he gives you a reason not to.
i really think you should take her out of the equation. she is not a part of your relationship; why let her cause problems in it? make your relationship with your boyfriend strong and stable, and she wont even be a concern no matter how hard she tries with him. now, in all honesty, this could totally backfire and you could end up cheated on (that can happen in any relationship, at any time, though… remember that). but in my mind, i would rather have it happen and know that it did then have to fight tooth and nail to get my guy away from some other girl every time we see her- and then worry every time i dont know where he is that he is with her.
take her out of your relationship- she doesnt belong there!
bah i really wish i could comment on the forums!! dang it lol
Dude! Download google Chrome. It will solve your life problems!
haha.. yea brad will probably end up being right. but im hoping that this is just my stupid hotel internet. i have literally never had a problem posting ever. and, all last week i couldnt post at all and that went away…. so the forum problem will go away to? haha maybe its just wishful thinking…
Chrome and firefox are just better browsers in general. I’d bet you’d like chrome if you tried it.
And PS.com, I’m always right.
but i dont want anything to change!!!
lol
Embrace the change. It’s the motto of your month.
haha thats so true
Ever heard that saying “keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer”? That´s what I´d do.
Watch her like a hawk, and maybe try to be nice to her. Maybe ( just maybe) she´ll think twice about messing with your bf if she feels a bit closer to you.