I never said rape doesn’t happen, women don’t get raped, and yes I’m aware of a #MeToo movement and I truly believe my closest women friends haven’t experienced it. And I’m lucky yes and they’re lucky too. Even if that was a blindspot or they’re lying… I’m saying that possible… but also it explains why I didn’t understand the repurcussions of asking someone home on a first date and why asking twice can be pushy. That makes sense.

I think saying that I said women don’t get raped or assaulted is a strawman… and not arguing in good faith. you’re saying something I didn’t say and arguing against that to make your argument more legitimate.

No one even said that you said that!
Reread. Tell me where it says, Jeff you don’t believe rape happens.

Oh, yeah it’s real funny. Jeff pretends to take everything personally, gets offended at every comment, and has no basic reading comprehension.

You are ridiculous and I’m done arguing with you. Good luck with women, Jeff. Ask all your various women friends why you can’t get into a serious relationship. Be open to the feedback.

But… I’ve had serious relationships in the past…I keep saying that… you also are reading past me…

I don’t think anyone’s arguing it’s never OK to hook up on a first date. But you’re saying, “all 4 of my year+ relationships started with a first date hookup” as proof that it can work and, well… you’re older now than you were then. Hopefully the women you’re dating are also older. Times have changed since then — even since your last long relationship.

What worked for you before seems to be not working for you now, and the evidence of that is that you are here in this forum looking for advice.

I think what people are trying to signal here is that you should consider if your approach, which may have worked fine before, need to change now. If your goal is a long-term relationship with someone your age, then first-date hookups are probably not going to be as successful now ~in attaining that goal~ compared to an approach of taking it more slowly.

You might be successful in hooking up, but the hookups may not lead to the relationiship you say you want.

On a more positive note… thank for the extremely heated discussion. I am thinking about what you said… and I’ll keep it mind. Maybe over time, I’ll see it more on your (the 3 of you) sides (that first date hookups and relationships are at odds, and that I’m a predator who values women only for sex and that my dating life has been unsuccessful because I try to have sex with women on first dates) and maybe you’ll see it on mine (there’s literally nothing wrong with having sex on a first date and it doesn’t preclude a relationship and that consent is indeed tricky). Later

These:

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/16/11905642/tea-and-consent-sexual-assault

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sex-matters/202012/sexual-consent-is-hard-and-complicated-important

Take a read if you want. Hey also quit yelling at me also. If this has been triggering I’m sorry but… I honestly do think I’m in decent company with the idea that consent is tricky. Also your idea of women being the only ones who should initiate is… not really a valid idea? How would they know if I consented if they initiated? If the answer is… they don’t know either… then I honestly think it plays to the idea that… full consent is hard to determine even with best efforts. And so… the idea stands… that I did nothing wrong and that even bad sex doesn’t imply that I did anything wrong.

Bess: This is more of a one off. I’m asking advice because it was more of an outlier than the norm. It really did catch me by surprise. I think… I talk to people I date and they often say they feel comfortable with me and that I didn’t pressure them to do anything. So, I was surprised and wondering about what happeend. And that’s the truth… this is sort of an outlier to me.