Hello all from Robert
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I’d been wondering how you were doing during the pandemic, Robert – I’m really sorry to hear about your mom. Glad to hear you have been staying safe and I hope you get that vaccine appointment soon! We’re a Pfizer household here; no ill effects, and since dose #2 is given 3 weeks after the first shot, rather than 4, it gets you to full immunity one week sooner. Give or take. 😉
You know, “I didn’t feel a connection” IS a perfectly valid reason not to continue dating someone. Do you feel an instant connection and passionate life-partner chemistry with every woman you meet? I would guess not. Also, one person’s “what you did wrong” is another person’s “yay that’s awesome”, so it wouldn’t even help you. If you really pressed someone to tell you, for example, “You are too obsessed with Renaissance Faires”, and so then you stop talking about your love of jousting and giant turkey drumsticks with dates, you’ll miss finding that lady who ALSO loves a good medieval time. Do you see what I mean? You will contort yourself to fit the taste of the last person you went out with, instead of presenting yourself as you are, and that’s not going to find you a compatible match. Women are not interchangeable and don’t all like the very same things – turns out they are ALSO unique human beings with feelings, and not just merchandise for you to browse! You said in your previous thread that you’d rejected plenty of women who liked sports (because you don’t) or weren’t into the holiday parade circuit, so remember that it’s a two-way street.
(Also, I really hope you don’t send your dates a list of things that THEY “did wrong” so they can “fix” themselves for the next guy…)
I’m sorry about your mom’s passing. That’s hard, especially last year.
I’m curious as to why you stopped therapy and are waiting to date again to start it back up? You have stringent ideas about a fantasy life you’ve created in your head. You also view dating as a checklist. A therapist would have helped you unpack that. You shouldn’t use a therapist to solely dissect women and your dating life. You have some work to do. Doing that work will put you in a better position to find a good partner.
With regard to being frustrated that you’re not sure why women don’t feel a connection – I think we all get the sentiment. But yeah, Kate and Fyodor are right to remind you that women have been trained to always soften emotional blows to men and most of us have experienced threatening or abusive behavior when softly rejecting someone’s advances. So women typically don’t list out the reasons out of self-preservation.
But honestly it could simply be that she wasn’t feeling it – nothing concrete. Women may find you perfectly pleasant and reasonably attractive, but not feel enough of a spark or that keeping the conversation going was more work than she wanted to put in.
I also found it curious that you stopped speaking to a therapist because you stopped dating. That kind of internal self-work isn’t quick and you seem to be treating it like something you can do in June or July to be “fixed” to date successfully by August. Yes, dating is discouraging, but you still don’t understand why women might hop on one call or go on one or two dates and say no thank you — because you still don’t see women as people with their own dating criteria. This is an example of something you could’ve been working through in therapy. It took me about a year of regular sessions to really feel like I’d made progress and take a step back from going as often.
It certainly is true that what attracts one woman or man will repel another. We are individuals. The more unique you, your life, your wants and desires, the more of a niche dating market you are in. That means you are going to get far more rejections than the ‘average’ guy. I recognized early on that both in terms of who I am and the sort of partner I was seeking, that I was very much in a niche market. One must adjust one’s thinking accordingly.
Wendy’s help with photos and what you say on-line about yourself seem to have gotten you over the first hurdle — a lot of women have wanted to find out more about you, either through first dates or a phone conversation. That really does represent a step forward.
Still, from what you describe, a suspect that you are saying/doing something in these initial telephone or in-person encounters which turns off the women who were attracted to your profile and photos. Come off too strong? Indicate your requirements, which they know they can’t fill? Too unbending in these requirements? Just a lot of conversational dead air? Pushing to fast for a second date? Not seeming interested in who they are and what their interests are? Appearing too secretive? If you think about it with a therapist, you should be able to replay these encounters in your mind and figure it out. May be different in each case.
You should expect most of these initial contacts to not result in further contact, but all of them being this way does seem extreme.
And yes, don’t expect women to justify not wanting to see you again. That is rude and extremely pushing and probably a bit frightening. That you still persist in this belief after all the back-and-forth on this forum suggests that you may be coming off as a bit creepy in these initial encounters. In other words, if the thought ‘she owes it to me to tell me specifically why she isn’t interested in me’ is even in your brain during these initial encounters, it is bound to be visible in some creepy talk/behavior. You can’t be simultaneously in this mode and in the pleasant, calm, getting to know you, just enjoying myself meeting someone new and learning about her and her interests mode that you should be in. If you are not engaging in conversation to learn enough about her to tell if you are compatible, then you come across as either desperate or having rejected her based on superficial physical attributes from the instant you saw her.
SO sorry about your Mom, Robert. That must have been especially hard in this crazy year.
Now, onto dating… I agree with everybody else in that this was so NOT the year to date anyway. But some of your frustration mention here is incorrect. Telling somebody they simply don’t feel a connection is often the most honest explanation. Chemistry. It’s either there. Or it isn’t.
PS — YES to all of Ron’s very well articulated points. But most especially that demanding an explanation from each and every mismatch is both quite unfair and oftputting.
Hi Robert, glad to see you updating us on your life. So sorry about your mother. That’s really hard. I hope you’re taking care of yourself.
I would encourage you to get whatever shot you can, as soon as you can. It’s such a relief. I got the J and J. Not my first choice, but I didn’t care. I would also push you to get back into therapy as soon as you can. It is the perfect time to address your concerns with a therapist now, to be ready for dating sooner.
I agree that again, the noticeable difference in you relating your dating experiences vs. others is that you believe you are entitled to be critiqued and judged by your date, and want the feedback. It shows a fundamental obliviousness to what women go through dating, and in the world at large. Men believe they are entitled to things from women. It seriously alarms me that you don’t seem to understand that other people have feelings, wants and needs themselves. They have also had bad experiences with dating, but for women “bad experiences” dating can be much worse than what you have experienced. That you seem to forget that other people also exist in their own lives is what I think some of your dates mean when they say they feel no connection. You are failing to connect with people around you, and it’s crucial to address this in therapy now. Women are people, too. They deserve respect and you should ask them for no more explanation if they tell you they feel no connection.
Even though I get that you’re probably not asking every match for an explanation of why it’s a no for them, even just having that attitude can send off-putting signals. I know for an absolute fact that you don’t have any idea what it’s like to be a woman, and what makes women comfortable or uncomfortable, and that is something a therapist or a coach could definitely help you with.
Robert, I’m so sorry about your mom. The last year has totally thrown everything upside down, so I’m glad to hear you are doing ok and have stayed healthy.
Others have given you a lot of good advice. Please get back into therapy! It’s a process, and the sooner you get back into it and working on things the better you will feel. And it’s fine to take a break from dating. Things are so weird these days anyway (and better to be safe about it because of Covid). I recall being active on 3 or 4 different dating apps at the same time, and then realizing it was just exhausting. It’s fine to take a break. Also, it really is a numbers game, like casting a net of opportunity. But for now, I really think you need to get back into therapy and get vaccinated!Robert, I’m genuinely curious, do you want to continue talking with, or go on a 2nd date with, every single woman? Or are there some that you’re like, meh, or no thank you?
If there are some you don’t want to move forward with, do you tell them exactly why?
If you want to keep seeing all of them, why? Do you have a genuine connection with each of them? Some more than others?
Kate:
Robert, I’m genuinely curious, do you want to continue talking with, or go on a 2nd date with, every single woman?
I actually like those questions ?
Not with *every* woman. I have had instances in which we are opposites on everything, and we are in agreement that there is nothing there. That’s more common with speed dating than online dating, but happens occasionally in online dating, too.
If there are some you don’t want to move forward with, do you tell them exactly why?
In the case I just described, no, just because we are in agreement that we are way too opposite. But, if a dealbreaker comes up, I do mention it. My conscience will not let me ghost; way too ignorant. I do mention it, but also let them know that they did nothing wrong, since she is a human being with feelings, and deserves to know that she did nothing wrong, that there’s a gap that cannot be bridged.
If you want to keep seeing all of them, why? Do you have a genuine connection with each of them? Some more than others?
In the absence of an outright negative, then, yes, I do want to keep seeing that person. While connections *can* happen instantaneously, others are slower, and that is fine. It’s just infuriating that the women require it instantaneously, and won’t give us the chance to get to know each other.
LisforLeslie:
But honestly it could simply be that she wasn’t feeling it – nothing concrete.
I’ve felt that myself at times. We have many things in common, but something seemed incomplete. Still, we had a nice time talking, share a number of interests, and the woman was a very nice person. She did nothing wrong to deserve being kicked to the curb. In my 20s and early 30s, I continued with second, third dates, etc. I’d be doing the same today, except *I’m* always the one to get kicked aside.
I feel as though things have flipped. I used to have the checklist (that ( didn’t realize I had before I came here), but now, even if I don’t feel “it” instantaneously, I’m still interested in getting to know her, not knowing what may develop.
Vathena:
Women are not interchangeable and don’t all like the very same things – turns out they are ALSO unique human beings with feelings, and not just merchandise for you to browse!
Correct!!
Several of you have expressed this thought, I just pulled Vathena’s words for the quote.
I’ve always gotten that. It’s actually why my checklist was so long before I came here, and the community here made me realize that I need to just pick out a few important things. I was looking for someone to fit every must have and every “nice to have” with none of the negatives, and I saw how unrealistic this was. I want to share things in life with the other person, and so does she. I get it. It’s why we exchange conversation very early on, to see if we are on the same page. If we want to share different things, it won’t work. If something is a dealbreaker, I’m not going to try to change her. If something doesn’t work on my side, she deserves to know why, and that she did nothing wrong, and that I genuinely value her as a person.
In some of my soul searching, I always felt as though *I* am the one who is not treated like a human being. I wasn’t sure how to express it on here without an example, and now I finally thought of one. I’m not going to do a phone call or a first date if I was not interested in her on some level to begin with. Just because I do not “feel” something instantaneously does not mean she deserves to be thrown away. Again, she is a human being, with feelings; what was there to get me interested initially is still there. Even if there is no “spark” per se, she is a nice person, and we can have fun doing things together if nothing else.
In my prior thread, I forget who said to look upon the first meets as a nice outing. I actually do see it that way, even if I didn’t express myself correctly. What I’m tired of is the one outing and done. If we both mutually enjoy a particular activity, for example, I have no problem enjoying that activity with that person. I don’t necessarily need the “spark” to enjoy her company. The spark may come. It’s taken *me* a few dates (when I was able to *get* more than one date) myself sometimes to feel the spark. All I am asking is the same in return of the *women* in the present time, but I am not respected as a person with feelings. There always was *some* of that back in my 20s, but a number of meets would lead to multiple dates that it didn’t affect me as much, I suppose. Today, though, things with this are getting really bad, as far as the instant gratification. I’m just not sure if it is a societal change or the difference between dating in the 20s vs dating in the 40s. It’s why I cannot get excited anymore about a phone call of a first meet. No point whatsoever in the one and done.
Vathena:
You said in your previous thread that you’d rejected plenty of women who liked sports (because you don’t)
Not that I rejected them, it’s myself stepping aside — keeping in mind what I said above. Most *people* — including most *women* — ARE interested in sports on some level. I completely get that. It’s just that, when I would meet someone who is totally die hard about (whatever sport), I felt as though I would be depriving them of sharing with their life partner something that is very important to them. I always saw that as her deserving something that I am not able to give. I never rejected the woman as a human being. I would step aside on my own, to make room for her to let someone in who can give her something that she deserves.
Vathena:
or weren’t into the holiday parade circuit
…something that I very much want to share with a life partner. That’s why i can relate when someone else has an interest that *I* do not have in common. Like I said before, I am under no illusion that she will be able to come to *every* event, but I would like to share that (as one example) with my life partner on some level.
Having said that, I did realize something at some point, that I did mishandle some of those situations, in not communicating properly. While I acted with the intention of wanting *her* to be happy, I probably should have communicated better rather than just moving on. I guess it never occurred to me until a number of you brought it up that it may have been irrelevant to some whether or not her life partner shared that particular interest, sports or otherwise, as several of you pointed out with personal examples. Nothing like that came up in the recent round of dating, but if it does I will talk about it rather than automatically moving on.
ktfran:
I’m curious as to why you stopped therapy and are waiting to date again to start it back up?
Copa:
I also found it curious that you stopped speaking to a therapist because you stopped dating.
I didn’t stop seeing the therapist because I stopped dating, I had to put that on hold because my car got ransomed a few times in a row by auto shops, and they demanded the money that I had already set aside for therapy. What I had set aside for them wasn’t good enough. It never is. Then, with the pandemic, only one job is contactless and does not involve going inside any building, and it’s not the one that involves the rental cars, so my income took a hit. Now, as of right now, I got past a few regular expenses, and it’s been a little while since my car was ramsomed, so i do have some money set aside. I’ll be looking to re-start, actually, over the next few weeks.
I get my first vaccine shot Friday, BTW.
