Hello all from Robert
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Yeah at this point I can’t say *not* incel. For a while I thought, well, he stays very respectful to all the women in this forum telling him what to do and doesn’t get angry at us… but there’s clearly so much anger and belittling of women in general.
The kiss thing’ like everything else with your issues and attitude, is likely because everything is imbued by you with so much serious drama. That is because you appear to live in a fantasy world about what love, dating, romance and women are all about. Nothing/no one, lives up to your ideas and expectations.
Same with being fixated on big light and holiday shows…you don’t like reality, you prefer to try and live in fantasyland. “Regular” people and events and life disappoint you. Thing is ,you are not “larger than life” and “all that” either. A certain arrogance is apparent in all you say and do/have done.Remember when he’d wax on and on about how he can imagine cuddling and PDA being so satisfying and if he had a gf he’d love to take her out to a burger joint and pet her to show their superior love to all mere subhumans? And all of us thought that was weird and gross and would not want to be pet in public anywhere?
Now women expecting affection anytime BEFORE Robert must be “fast movers.”
Yep. After the latest novel Robert wrote about kissing… I’m, I don’t even know.
I do know that people who kiss early in dating, or fuck, even before a first date, have long-lasting, meaningful, mutually loving relationships. When you kiss someone gives no indication if something will last or not. Or if something is deep and meaningful.
Incel is a good description. Or I also like to go with the “Nice Guy™” mantra.
It’s been a looong time since I’ve dated … but there were a variety of ways they could go: no kiss, a kiss, *more* than a kiss, or even kissing BEFORE we’d gone on an “official” date. I wouldn’t even say the amount of kissing directly related to how close I felt to the person. Sometimes, yes, but other times it was just a moment thing. People enjoying each other’s company, in however that unfolded for the moment. The physical and emotional aren’t always in lock-step with each other so that increasing one by “one unit” also increases the other by the same.
The problem you have is that you don’t handle ambiguity.
You’re looking for The Formula® – the exact sequence of variables to explain The Womens®. But it just doesn’t exist. Some women are going to want to take things slowly, others are going to be bored with you long before the hand-holding activity you have planned for your three month anniversary. Why? Because they’re just like men, in that there isn’t a single “this is how THEY think” algorithm that describes them. Every person is unique in what they want.
BUT, there is a bell curve.
So, while “all women” may not want a specific single thing, there are some trends that cover large portions of a population. Being creepily un-flexible is probably at the lower end of that curve. A guy who is more interested in dates following a script than in just being in the moment is probably going to appeal to VERY FEW women. In general, people aren’t dating to fill a scavenger hunt … where they just need this list of exact things to win. They are looking for someone they can enjoy their time with and can mentally project a future of continuing to enjoy their time with. In your quest to check all the boxes, you’re taking any enjoyment out of the process at all.
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(PS: Don’t interpret any of the responses as “You should have kissed those women on the first date.” as I’m definitely not advocating running headlong at someone all puckered up if you can’t “read the room” and determine whether it is wanted or not.)
Robert’s last post does not read incel to me. He’s not pushing for the physical affection or sex that he believes he is owed by women. He’s avoiding it. It’s like his parents or grandparents ingrained some several generations old antique standards of what was appropriate that have no relevance in today’s world and that he is totally incapable of adapting to the modern view not only of dating, but of interpersonal relationships in general. He does a lot of self-protecting, by stubbornly insisting that he’s the ‘right’ or ‘normal’ one and recasting his failings as virtues. Thus scraping by financially in low-pay gig jobs isn’t a reflection of his inability to work for, or even with, other people, it’s transmuted into his hard-working drive, which so many in his life simply lack — thus the dismissal of the one 99% compatible woman he is ever likely to find himself in a relationship with. That is beyond sad, but it’s where he finds himself.
Yes, therapy. There is a ton of self-reflection and change needed. He doesn’t want therapy and has all kinds of $ and ‘it doesn’t work’ and ‘impossible to find the right therapist’ excuses, but in the end, he fears confronting the problems caused by his personal issues and beliefs. He is endlessly stubborn, because that is his self-protection mechanism.
Like Trump losing an election to a non-charismatic, very old politician, in a year in which Republicans did very well, apart from him, he has concocted a huge web of explanations for why the problem is always the rest of the people in the world being the problem, because he is unable to admit that he is a substantial part of all of his problems.
We should not feel bad that Robert rejects all but cosmetic advice from us. If he admitted that the advice was good, he would have to admit things about himself and his world view that he doesn’t want to admit.
He’s not an incel. He really does just want someone to attend Christmas light and other events with him. He doesn’t want a deep or sexual relationship. The lacking drive complaint about his sole deep relationship sounds more and more like an excuse to escape the human closeness and need to compromise which is abhorrent to him.
Wendy’s advice is excellent. Seek both fulfillment outside of dating and relationships and get therapy to understand self. If the therapist doesn’t push you hard enough to feel uncomfortable, therapy won’t be a success. You’ve built a very thick protective shell, Robert. You need a willingness to have a good therapist pierce through it and help you understand yourself and begin to heal.
It’s funny Ron, I thought you had said that word about him at the beginning. I definitely could be wrong.
I don’t think Robert is an incel- although one could definitely argue he IS involuntarily celibate. However, I do think he blames his dysfunction with women on women being too fast, or not liking x mas, or having needs, whatever other thing, because at the heart of it, women have repeatedly rejected him over the years and he doesn’t understand or care to and is bitter about it. He hides it, he is polite mostly to us (although he hasn’t directly responded to me in ages.) Although I don’t think he’s an incel (and Ron, most incels aren’t throwing themselves at women, they’ve been repeatedly rejected and they are bitter, angry men) he doesn’t like them and sees us as “other.” Blaming expecting or wanting affection before 3-4 months while dating on the entire rest of society’s women being “too fast” is sexist and misogynistic.
Robert’s probably too old to be an incel, he’s just your normal garden variety woman disliker.
Yes, I did use the word incel earlier, when Robert seemed to feel he had a right to a younger woman to bear his children. That’s why I said this last post did not strike me as incel. It seemed a changed approach — if he feels he can put off kissing for more than 3 months, how long is he willing to put off sex? I guess I was surprised by this post — the content, the tone, the talk of women wanting to be too fast with him.
He’s certainly a disliker of modern, or really not all-that-very modern women. In general, I am coming to believe that he is not fond of interaction with people in general.
It’s like when your parents offer ‘helpful’ relationship advice, which would have worked great 40 years ago, and now here is Robert still clinging to that world-view thirty years later.
It might not have been long enough yet, he’ll be ready for the ex in the early 2030s.
Honestly I jest but this whole thing is just sad. I (and I’m sure plenty of others here) did everything ‘wrong’ by those standards but we’re living the life Robert claims to want. Like, we’ve done the thing, we’re the target audience, yet apparently we’re the ones who’ve got it wrong.
